Are we ready to agree that the 14 out of 42 bad guys who escaped the Raft that were previously known to be dead as doornails are Skrulls? Are we ready to do that or is something completely different going on there?

Are we ready to agree that the 14 out of 42 bad guys who escaped the Raft that were previously known to be dead as doornails are Skrulls? Are we ready to do that or is something completely different going on there?

At first I thought it was the Skrulls (or whoever) stockpiling bad guys to fashion themselves a supervillain army or something, but it makes more sense that they'd just be Skrulls.

I'm not sure if this theory's been put out there, but this is what I've been thinking: Lindy's a Skrull. Bob really DID kill his wife and turned himself in for it. The Skrulls, who were behind the Breakout, concocted the whole Lindy's fine story to keep the world's most powerful hero in a mentally weakened state.

I'm not sure if this theory's been put out there, but this is what I've been thinking: Lindy's a Skrull. Bob really DID kill his wife and turned himself in for it. The Skrulls, who were behind the Breakout, concocted the whole Lindy's fine story to keep the world's most powerful hero in a mentally weakened state.

I like it.

But wasn't she killed again? Unless the Skrulls killed her -again- to have the Sentry stop Hulk, which I think is happening in WWH#5.

Interesting.

At first I thought it was the Skrulls (or whoever) to fashion themselves a supervillain army or something, but it makes more sense that they'd be Skrulls.

Bad guys appear to take the final hit for the team all the time. Who would really notice if the demise was in fact real, yet there the guy is months or years later? Who could challenge or verify anything, especially if SHIELD scooped the guy up if they were defeated. Nobody watching the watchmen is a key part of all this. There's no place a Skrull cannot be or get benefit from. Good guys, bad guys, mutants, monsters, politicians, regular supporting cast characters. And maybe even a few readers. :twisted:

I'm not sure if this theory's been put out there, but this is what I've been thinking: Lindy's a Skrull. Bob really DID kill his wife and turned himself in for it. The Skrulls, who were behind the Breakout, concocted the whole Lindy's fine story to keep the world's most powerful hero in a mentally weakened state.

That had been put out before in this or another thread. Lindy has not been doing much to help the Sentry's condition, especially in the second mini. Keeping that guy paralyzed would be very, very important.

I like it.

But wasn't she killed again? Unless the Skrulls killed her -again- to have the Sentry stop Hulk, which I think is happening in WWH#5.

Interesting.

My theory is that we find out in Mighty Avengers next issue. Ultron didn't know that Lindy was a Skrull, and now that's just gonna be a whole new mess.

Here's (http://comics.ign.com/articles/825/825029p1.html) the preview art for Illuminati #5, which is going to be a big piece of the Secret Invasion puzzle. Nothing overtly revealing or anything, but still very nice to look at.

Are we ready to agree that the 14 out of 42 bad guys who escaped the Raft that were previously known to be dead as doornails are Skrulls? Are we ready to do that or is something completely different going on there?

Definitely.

Bendis confirmed that that's the reason behind the Raft break out.

The question now is, which group have the Skrulls infiltrated?

Future solicits had The Hood and Avengers teaming up to weed out Skrulls I've read. So, which set of duplicates are the real article and which are Skrulls? Are they both?

Meaning, is Constrictor genuine, or a Skrull in Hood's group, or Skrull in Initiative? Etc.

I'm not sure if this theory's been put out there, but this is what I've been thinking: Lindy's a Skrull. Bob really DID kill his wife and turned himself in for it. The Skrulls, who were behind the Breakout, concocted the whole Lindy's fine story to keep the world's most powerful hero in a mentally weakened state.

Hrm.. good point. A lot of people wondered why he'd lock himself up in the Raft.

If the whole operation was a Skrull thing to spring Skrulls, it seems to be an odd coincidence, given the recent Lindy portrayals, etc.

And if you consider the Skrulls are actively behind a lot of recent events to keep heroes off balance.. then Ultron is a Skrull plot, to take Sentry off the table.

If only they could have replaced his shrink, that'd be a great opportunity for them.

Supposedly, Namor #4 may have some clues..

Here goes the Namor-is-a-Skrull thing again?

From another board:


Sub Mariner #4

Purely speculation on my part but...

this issue came out the week before last, so maybe someone already posted something similar -

basic summary of the story thus far - it's told in flashback form. In the present, Tony Stark finds Atlantis in ruins and the skeleton of Namor sitting on it's throne. The story goes back into the past and recaps the events as they led up to this point.

Atlantean sleeper cells had been placed all over America, making Namor and Atlantis a target of SHIELD and unrelenting Iron Man posturing. An attack that kills many Americans has implicated Namor (it was done by a rogue Atlantean cell without Namors permission) and they are planning another attack on American soil. Considering the first attack and threats of another to be an act of war, Shield has tried to contain Atlantis by show of force, Namor escapes in an effort to root out the rogue cell and clear his country's name...however there are two factions left behind in Atlantis, those loyal to Namor, and those who oppose his rule. A civil war has broken out and they are destroying themselves from within while SHIELD remains outside issuing surrender ultimatums.

In his quest to find and destroy the rogue cell, Namor is refused help by Xavier, and attacked by Venom. Venom has ripped one wing from each of Namor ankles, but then beaten soundly by Namor, who rips out Venom's tongue (unsure how this plays into Venom's continuity and if it'll grow back or if he'll be mute from now on). Namor is then refused by Sue Richards for help in locating the cell in Seattle, but she does loan him a Fantasticar. Namor all but calls her a welching bitch and leaves (remember, he sent troops to help during Civil War at her request). While enroute to Seattle, Namor speaks to a shadowy figure to get help in finding the cell. He gets directed to the local news because the attack has already begun - he goes to stop it but is jumped by a group, one of whom claims to be his own son.

Left out in this summary thus far is the conversation Reed and Tony have in present time regarding the Namor skeleton they found.

The DNA is similar to Namor's, but not exactly right, meaning that it is not Namor's skeleton. Tony asks Reed who's body it is and Reed tells Tony to sit down.....

Wild speculation: Namor is a skrull and probably has been since the events shown in Illuminati #1. The shadowy figure he was talking to is probably a skrull as well.

If only they could have replaced his shrink, that'd be a great opportunity for them.

Replacing someone's shrink? What good would that do the bad guys? I mean it's not like the shrink could plant a post hypnotic suggestion to have him shoot tony stark in the stomach while everyone is looking the other way because they think Crimson Dynamo is shooting at him from a rooftop.


:scared:

So can we assume that the whole "Jigsaw breaking Spiderman's arm" in that second issue of new avengers was because he was a skrull?

So can we assume that the whole "Jigsaw breaking Spiderman's arm" in that second issue of new avengers was because he was a skrull?

Did Jigsaw die previously?

Replacing someone's shrink? What good would that do the bad guys? I mean it's not like the shrink could plant a post hypnotic suggestion to have him shoot tony stark in the stomach while everyone is looking the other way because they think Crimson Dynamo is shooting at him from a rooftop.


:scared:

Interesting, eh? :D

Did Jigsaw die previously?

He's been "killed" by the Punisher numerous times, only to come back time and again.

He's been "killed" by the Punisher numerous times, only to come back time and again.

hmm, he may be a skrull at that.

hmm, he may be a skrull at that.

Not to mention the newest preview of New Avengers

Where Jigsaw gets his ass handed to him by Tigra and almost starts bawling. Really doesn't seem like Jigsaw to me. I think that quite possibly, the real Jigsaw is running around the Marvel U and doesn't even know that his Skrull double is out there.

So can we assume that the whole "Jigsaw breaking Spiderman's arm" in that second issue of new avengers was because he was a skrull?

That was just an art goof. That wasn't supposed to be Jigsaw (though I can't remember who it was supposed to be). Someone gave Finch the wrong reference.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Tigra is appearing in Ms Marvel as a brainwashed puppet AND Might Avengers at the same time.

Continuity slip or Skrull?

Definitely.

Bendis confirmed that that's the reason behind the Raft break out.

The question now is, which group have the Skrulls infiltrated?

Future solicits had The Hood and Avengers teaming up to weed out Skrulls I've read. So, which set of duplicates are the real article and which are Skrulls? Are they both?

Meaning, is Constrictor genuine, or a Skrull in Hood's group, or Skrull in Initiative? Etc.

To be clear, I don't think there is two of anyone running around. So there would only be one Constrictor in the Marvel universe, same as only one Elektra. The question is though would there eventually have been a second Elektra if the witnesses were all killed...

To be clear, I don't think there is two of anyone running around. So there would only be one Constrictor in the Marvel universe, same as only one Elektra. The question is though would there eventually have been a second Elektra if the witnesses were all killed...

Bendis already stated that one skrull could be responsible for multiple identities, kind of hinting that some established characters haven't been replaced but not all of their appearances were the real them but were actually the skrull. So in essence two of the same character running around briefly at the same time.

Supposedly, Namor #4 may have some clues..

Here goes the Namor-is-a-Skrull thing again?

From another board:


Sub Mariner #4

Purely speculation on my part but...

this issue came out the week before last, so maybe someone already posted something similar -

basic summary of the story thus far - it's told in flashback form. In the present, Tony Stark finds Atlantis in ruins and the skeleton of Namor sitting on it's throne. The story goes back into the past and recaps the events as they led up to this point.

Atlantean sleeper cells had been placed all over America, making Namor and Atlantis a target of SHIELD and unrelenting Iron Man posturing. An attack that kills many Americans has implicated Namor (it was done by a rogue Atlantean cell without Namors permission) and they are planning another attack on American soil. Considering the first attack and threats of another to be an act of war, Shield has tried to contain Atlantis by show of force, Namor escapes in an effort to root out the rogue cell and clear his country's name...however there are two factions left behind in Atlantis, those loyal to Namor, and those who oppose his rule. A civil war has broken out and they are destroying themselves from within while SHIELD remains outside issuing surrender ultimatums.

In his quest to find and destroy the rogue cell, Namor is refused help by Xavier, and attacked by Venom. Venom has ripped one wing from each of Namor ankles, but then beaten soundly by Namor, who rips out Venom's tongue (unsure how this plays into Venom's continuity and if it'll grow back or if he'll be mute from now on). Namor is then refused by Sue Richards for help in locating the cell in Seattle, but she does loan him a Fantasticar. Namor all but calls her a welching bitch and leaves (remember, he sent troops to help during Civil War at her request). While enroute to Seattle, Namor speaks to a shadowy figure to get help in finding the cell. He gets directed to the local news because the attack has already begun - he goes to stop it but is jumped by a group, one of whom claims to be his own son.

Left out in this summary thus far is the conversation Reed and Tony have in present time regarding the Namor skeleton they found.

The DNA is similar to Namor's, but not exactly right, meaning that it is not Namor's skeleton. Tony asks Reed who's body it is and Reed tells Tony to sit down.....

Wild speculation: Namor is a skrull and probably has been since the events shown in Illuminati #1. The shadowy figure he was talking to is probably a skrull as well.


Not to ruin the mini series or anything, but more likely the skeleton is that of Namor's "son" that appeared in the same issue. He might be Llyron if anyone remembers who that is, although he is not green. We don't know yet. That seems more likely than Namor being revealed to be a Skrull outside of an Illuminati series.

Heh, this was a fun bit of info (re: Tigra)


Tigra returned to Earth with the Avengers Infinity team during the Maximum Security storyline, during which she helped to save the Earth from becoming a penal colony for alien criminals.

Heh, 42.

And while we're at it.


http://www.marvel.com/i/content/94735500_full5628847.jpg



http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/947new_storyimage5543789_full.jpg


Yeah, it has nothing at all to do with things, just found it ironic that the number 42 keeps popping up.

Of course, if she were a Skrull, her being outed by Hulkling during Civil War works on another level altogether :D

Not to ruin the mini series or anything, but more likely the skeleton is that of Namor's "son" that appeared in the same issue. He might be Llyron if anyone remembers who that is, although he is not green. We don't know yet. That seems more likely than Namor being revealed to be a Skrull outside of an Illuminati series.

Doesn't ripping off the wing hinder his flying in that issue? I guess the writer and editor don't realize that Namor's flight has nothing to do with the wings on his feet.

Bendis already stated that one skrull could be responsible for multiple identities, kind of hinting that some established characters haven't been replaced but not all of their appearances were the real them but were actually the skrull. So in essence two of the same character running around briefly at the same time.

Like I said, I don't personally think that's the case. We'll see though. If Skrulls really are duplicating not one, but any number of people at any time, then its going to get hairy sorting out who did what and when. At least with Elektra, we can assume that the Elektra we saw between point A and point B (depending on where you feel those points to be) was always a Skrull. KnowwhutImean, Vern?

The Raft breakout is an interesting thing, for sure. At this point it seems pretty clear that it was engineered by Skrulls, but the question as to why still remains. In that conversation between the Savage Land mutate and Sauron (see the first post), the mutate says someone told them to go ahead with the breakout because no one would follow them, but that turned out to be untrue (since the Avengers followed them). It would seem this "someone" were the Skrulls, but I don't know, it's an odd thing.

Apparently the Skrulls pushed the mutates to go for the breakout. But how do they benefit from that? If the SHIELD agents that were mining for vibranium in the Savage Land were doing so under Skrull orders, then one could argue that the breakout didn't benefit the Skrulls at all, but rather it hindered their operation, since it led to the formation of the Avengers and their mining efforts being completely wiped away.

Did they engineer the breakout because they replaced some supervillains while they were in the Raft (which I imagine wouldn't be very hard to do, since the Skrulls are also controlling SHIELD) and desperately needed a way to get the Skrulls-posing-as-villains out of jail (to go out there and wreck havoc and infiltrate whatever large criminal organization, like the Hand or the Hood's new gang), so they engineered a massive breakout?

Doesn't ripping off the wing hinder his flying in that issue? I guess the writer and editor don't realize that Namor's flight has nothing to do with the wings on his feet.

I think there have been other occasions when his wings were ripped off and he couldn't fly then, either. I think Namor's flying ability really comes from the wings, as implausible as that may seem.

Here's an interesting point we all missed at the time..

The original Avengers formed when Loki tricked the Hulk into destroying some railroad tracks to put him in conflict with Thor/other heroes.

Now, if you subscribe to the idea that the Skrulls manipulated the Hulk into attacking the Illuminati, it's a nice parallel. Especially since issue 2 of the original series had the shape shifting Space Phantom turn heroes against each other by pretending to be them.

Which, given the whole Skrulls being behind the Raft breakout thing, is a nice little bit of symmetry storywise. Especially since at the time everyone said the formation was nothing like the original and felt like a let down.

Bendis gets his revenge? :D

The Raft breakout is an interesting thing, for sure. At this point it seems pretty clear that it was engineered by Skrulls, but the question as to why still remains. In that conversation between the Savage Land mutate and Sauron (see the first post), the mutate says someone told them to go ahead with the breakout because no one would follow them, but that turned out to be untrue (since the Avengers followed them). It would seem this "someone" were the Skrulls, but I don't know, it's an odd thing.

Apparently the Skrulls pushed the mutates to go for the breakout. But how do they benefit from that? If the SHIELD agents that were mining for vibranium in the Savage Land were doing so under Skrull orders, then one could argue that the breakout didn't benefit the Skrulls at all, but rather it hindered their operation, since it led to the formation of the Avengers and their mining efforts being completely wiped away.

Did they engineer the breakout because they replaced some supervillains while they were in the Raft (which I imagine wouldn't be very hard to do, since the Skrulls are also controlling SHIELD) and desperately needed a way to get the Skrulls-posing-as-villains out of jail (to go out there and wreck havoc and infiltrate whatever large criminal organization, like the Hand or the Hood's new gang), so they engineered a massive breakout?

Maybe the idea was just to keep the heroes busy? Releasing a bunch of villains is a pretty good way to make sure Cap and Iron Man didn't have a chance to notice what may have been right in front of their eyes.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Tigra is appearing in Ms Marvel as a brainwashed puppet AND Might Avengers at the same time.

Continuity slip or Skrull?

I think it's just cause Mighty is so far behind the rest of the current books (Think about it, in NA, the Symbiotes have landed already)

Here's an interesting point we all missed at the time..

The original Avengers formed when Loki tricked the Hulk into destroying some railroad tracks to put him in conflict with Thor/other heroes.

Now, if you subscribe to the idea that the Skrulls manipulated the Hulk into attacking the Illuminati, it's a nice parallel. Especially since issue 2 of the original series had the shape shifting Space Phantom turn heroes against each other by pretending to be them.

Which, given the whole Skrulls being behind the Raft breakout thing, is a nice little bit of symmetry storywise. Especially since at the time everyone said the formation was nothing like the original and felt like a let down.

Bendis gets his revenge? :D

that is a really cool parallel :)

The Raft breakout is an interesting thing, for sure. At this point it seems pretty clear that it was engineered by Skrulls, but the question as to why still remains. In that conversation between the Savage Land mutate and Sauron (see the first post), the mutate says someone told them to go ahead with the breakout because no one would follow them, but that turned out to be untrue (since the Avengers followed them). It would seem this "someone" were the Skrulls, but I don't know, it's an odd thing.

Apparently the Skrulls pushed the mutates to go for the breakout. But how do they benefit from that? If the SHIELD agents that were mining for vibranium in the Savage Land were doing so under Skrull orders, then one could argue that the breakout didn't benefit the Skrulls at all, but rather it hindered their operation, since it led to the formation of the Avengers and their mining efforts being completely wiped away.

Did they engineer the breakout because they replaced some supervillains while they were in the Raft (which I imagine wouldn't be very hard to do, since the Skrulls are also controlling SHIELD) and desperately needed a way to get the Skrulls-posing-as-villains out of jail (to go out there and wreck havoc and infiltrate whatever large criminal organization, like the Hand or the Hood's new gang), so they engineered a massive breakout?

Sauron wasn't freed as a favor to the Mutates, someone needed him for something, right? When he tried to comment on it, he was shot and never spoke again about it that we know of. SHIELD has him. So did whoever was behind the break out get what they needed from Sauron (how much time passed between the break out and when he was found?) or is SHIELD getting what they need right now?

Here's an interesting point we all missed at the time..

The original Avengers formed when Loki tricked the Hulk into destroying some railroad tracks to put him in conflict with Thor/other heroes.

Now, if you subscribe to the idea that the Skrulls manipulated the Hulk into attacking the Illuminati, it's a nice parallel. Especially since issue 2 of the original series had the shape shifting Space Phantom turn heroes against each other by pretending to be them.

Which, given the whole Skrulls being behind the Raft breakout thing, is a nice little bit of symmetry storywise. Especially since at the time everyone said the formation was nothing like the original and felt like a let down.

Bendis gets his revenge? :D

I think the plan was for the Hulk to be gone. An uncontrollable wild card out of play. Why someone would want to give the Hulk a reason to return is unknown to me. No Skrull would want that to happen. Bad for business.

I think the plan was for the Hulk to be gone. An uncontrollable wild card out of play. Why someone would want to give the Hulk a reason to return is unknown to me. No Skrull would want that to happen. Bad for business.

Simple.

Keep Hulk occupied. If he dies, no big deal. If he returns, set up the Illuminati so he'll keep the entire Marvel U occupied (which is what happened)

And with a disaster like that on their hands, groups like SHIELD get emergency powers and makes infiltration even easier ("Sorry, he was helping the Hulk, we took him into protective custody..")

The whole thing is to keep the heroes off balance and never let up.

Hrm.. come to think of it.. if Black Bolt were replaced.. they'd have access to the Space gem and could set up the bomb that took out Sakaar. And it'd be a fun storytelling reveal when Reed and Tony are talking about the Skrull threat and Black Bolt speaks and both go slack jawed.

Imagine the table, it'd be like when Ozymandias gave his famous line.

Not saying it's true, but it'd be a fun thing to do.

..

And just to throw it out there and keep everyone paranoid.. who's to say some of us haven't been paid by Marvel to throw out wild theories and keep everyone guessing ;)

Black Bolt is an appealing Skrull just because he is the least likely Illumanati to cause people to go apeshit when it's revealed he's been a Skrull for years.

Simple.

Keep Hulk occupied. If he'd dead, no big deal. If he returns, set up the Illuminati so he'll keep the entire Marvel U occupied (which is what happened)

And with a disaster like that on their hands, groups like SHIELD get emergency powers and makes infiltration even easier ("Sorry, he was helping the Hulk, we took him into protective custody..")

The whole thing is to keep the heroes off balance and never let up.

Hrm.. come to think of it.. if Black Bolt were replaced.. they'd have access to the Space gem and could set up the bomb that took out Sakaar. And it'd be a fun storytelling reveal when Reed and Tony are talking about the Skrull threat and Black Bolt speaks and both go slack jawed.

Imagine the table, it'd be like when Ozymandias gave his famous line.

Not saying it's true, but it'd be a fun thing to do.

..

And just to throw it out there and keep everyone paranoid.. who's to say some of us haven't been paid by Marvel to throw out wild theories and keep everyone guessing ;)

Wow, that Black Bolt stuff sounds pretty cool. I had totally forgotten that the Illuminati have the Infinity Gems. I didn't realize how dangerous it could be that they've been infiltrated. The Skrulls taking hold of a gem, any gem, poses a huge threat.

Simple.

Keep Hulk occupied. If he dies, no big deal. If he returns, set up the Illuminati so he'll keep the entire Marvel U occupied (which is what happened)

And with a disaster like that on their hands, groups like SHIELD get emergency powers and makes infiltration even easier ("Sorry, he was helping the Hulk, we took him into protective custody..")

The whole thing is to keep the heroes off balance and never let up.

Hrm.. come to think of it.. if Black Bolt were replaced.. they'd have access to the Space gem and could set up the bomb that took out Sakaar. And it'd be a fun storytelling reveal when Reed and Tony are talking about the Skrull threat and Black Bolt speaks and both go slack jawed.

Imagine the table, it'd be like when Ozymandias gave his famous line.

Not saying it's true, but it'd be a fun thing to do.

..

And just to throw it out there and keep everyone paranoid.. who's to say some of us haven't been paid by Marvel to throw out wild theories and keep everyone guessing ;)
Just saying, hoping that the Hulk comes back to throw everyone off and give SHIELD emergency powers is a huge risk. Just like having anything to do with Avengers Disassembled and especially House of M, is a big risk in my opinion. If you mess up then you're getting ruled by the Hulk too or history is rewritten so you don't even remember what the plan was. The Skrulls would have to be more arrogant than usual.


I throw out wild theories completely for free! You mean there's money in it?!

Black Bolt is an appealing Skrull just because he is the least likely Illumanati to cause people to go apeshit when it's revealed he's been a Skrull for years.

Yeah, of course, Hulk fans would get upset that the feat would be taken away.

And in the plus/minus column:

- We never really saw the fight, but we did see the after effect (chunk of the moon the size of New Jersey split off)

- Sentry vs. BB fight also would be invalidated

Wow, that Black Bolt stuff sounds pretty cool. I had totally forgotten that the Illuminati have the Infinity Gems. I didn't realize how dangerous it could be that they've been infiltrated. The Skrulls taking hold of a gem, any gem, poses a huge threat.

The gem aspect is one of the big reasons I think Reed is the Skrull.

With the Power gem they could conceivably fake some powers in a pinch if need be.

Of course, if they did that, then BB could be a Skrull also.

..

Isn't this fun?

It's almost like that part of the Princess Bride :D

Black Bolt is an appealing Skrull just because he is the least likely Illumanati to cause people to go apeshit when it's revealed he's been a Skrull for years.

But you want people to flip out. You don't want it to be a character that people will say "oh I don't really know who that is anyways."

The problem I'm having concerning my person of interest, Dr. Strange, is that he is everywhere lately. He's of course in New Avengers, he's a part of One More Day, he's in Endangered Species, he's coming up in Wolverine. However, just like I'd been saying, when Strange shows up and starts explaining to someone what is happening or how something works, he's never challenged or questioned. Resistance to what Strange says continues to be minimal. And that makes him a dangerous person to be compromised.

But you want people to flip out. You don't want it to be a character that people will say "oh I don't really know who that is anyways."



"The Spider-Man you've been reading about for the past 20 years was a clone!"

"Iron Man is a murderous traitor who's secretly been under the control of Ultron for years!"

Remember how well those storylines worked out?

Just saying, hoping that the Hulk comes back to throw everyone off and give SHIELD emergency powers is a huge risk. Just like having anything to do with Avengers Disassembled and especially House of M, is a big risk in my opinion. If you mess up then you're getting ruled by the Hulk too or history is rewritten so you don't even remember what the plan was. The Skrulls would have to be more arrogant than usual.


I throw out wild theories completely for free! You mean there's money in it?!

It depends.

The more things they throw at heroes to keep them off balance, the more chance they have to get detected. So, I can't sign on for that reason.

Especially if Hulk manages to eliminate all the heroes.. it'd be like that What If issue where the Avengers beat everyone at Scarlet Centurion's request.

It's easier to take out one guy, than it is to take out hundreds.

And I'd say they're pretty arrogant to try and take out high level people like the Illuminati.

I'm not saying they're behind HoM though.. if that was them, they got pretty lucky.


#29 - What If the Avengers defeated everybody?
departure point: Avengers Special #2
story: As in Avengers Special #2, the Scarlet Centurion shows up after
the events of Avengers #2 and convinces the Avengers that the huge
abundance of super powered beings is going to cause the destruction of
the earth. The Avengers decide he's right and end up capturing all the
other powered beings, turning them over to the centurion for
rehabilitaion. Finally, it's just the Avengers. Unlike Avengers Special
#2, however, no team from an alternate future shows up to stop them, so
they end up fighting amongst themselves. After the Hulk is turned over
to the centurion, they all quit forever. centurion then takes over the
planet. before he can quite finsih, though, the Avengers, pissed at
being played for fools, attack. He creams everyone but Thor, who
proceeds to take him down solo in about 5 seconds. Iron Man wants to
keep the Avengers going, but everyone else leaves, leaving Iron Man
alone to debate whether he should retire or not.

But you want people to flip out. You don't want it to be a character that people will say "oh I don't really know who that is anyways."

The problem I'm having concerning my person of interest, Dr. Strange, is that he is everywhere lately. He's of course in New Avengers, he's a part of One More Day, he's in Endangered Species, he's coming up in Wolverine. However, just like I'd been saying, when Strange shows up and starts explaining to someone what is happening or how something works, he's never challenged or questioned. Resistance to what Strange says continues to be minimal. And that makes him a dangerous person to be compromised.

This is true, but then again, Reed is also someone who people tend to listen to 100% without questioning. Even his own family went along when he invaded Latveria.

"The Spider-Man you've been reading about for the past 20 years was a clone!"

"Iron Man is a murderous traitor who's secretly been under the control of Ultron for years!"

Remember how well those storylines worked out?

This wouldn't necessarily have to be nearly as drastic as those, though. You could say the Illuminati (or whoever, like Elektra) have only been replaced for a year or two, not thirty years (as was the case with Spider-Man and Iron Man in those stories) and I don't think it'd be received nearly as badly.

"The Spider-Man you've been reading about for the past 20 years was a clone!"

"Iron Man is a murderous traitor who's secretly been under the control of Ultron for years!"

Remember how well those storylines worked out?

Boy, do I. And it was Kang Iron Man was controlled by. But then Ultron did take over his armor that one time too.

Just saying. There is a different style of writing (and editing) today that is in play that was not there during the 90s. No offense to 90s writers or fans, but it is different and shouldn't be held to that same standard when it comes to a potential shake up. At least not until the thing has happened. So far this is all speculation.

This is true, but then again, Reed is also someone who people tend to listen to 100% without questioning. Even his own family went along when he invaded Latveria.

Reed hasn't been as active as Strange though. The Latveria thing was a while ago and Strange has been actively advising as recently as this week in other comics. Reed worked with Tony and Pym during some of the Civil War ideas, Strange does his own solo thing more often than not.

This wouldn't necessarily have to be nearly as drastic as those, though. You could say the Illuminati (or whoever, like Elektra) have only been replaced for a year or two, not thirty years (as was the case with Spider-Man and Iron Man in those stories) and I don't think it'd be received nearly as badly.

That's true. I guess I'm assuming that the replacement took place right after the Kree-Skrull war, but it needn't necessarily be so.

Boy, do I. And it was Kang Iron Man was controlled by. But then Ultron did take over his armor that one time too.

Just saying. There is a different style of writing (and editing) today that is in play that was not there during the 90s. No offense to 90s writers or fans, but it is different and shouldn't be held to that same standard when it comes to a potential shake up. At least not until the thing has happened. So far this is all speculation.

Was it Kang? Luckily, I've almost forgotten that whole thing.

In any case, I certainly have more faith in Bendis to handle it correctly. I still say Richards makes the most logical sense (stretchy powers easy for Skrull shapeshifting to simulate, smarts can be simulated by knowledge of advanced Skrull science, Skrulls familiar with him, Skrulls hate him).

This wouldn't necessarily have to be nearly as drastic as those, though. You could say the Illuminati (or whoever, like Elektra) have only been replaced for a year or two, not thirty years (as was the case with Spider-Man and Iron Man in those stories) and I don't think it'd be received nearly as badly.

It'd be a gamble, but I think we can agree that Strange is not nearly as beloved as Peter Parker. So to say that "these adventures" were not the true Strange, but an imposter doesn't have the same effect as saying these Peter Parker stories from here to here wasn't truly him. Plus it makes a return of the true Stephen Strange something to really look forward to. Same as there being more people interested in the activities of Clint Barton AFTER he died in Disassembled than before.

Was it Kang? Luckily, I've almost forgotten that whole thing.

In any case, I certainly have more faith in Bendis to handle it correctly. I still say Richards makes the most logical sense (stretchy powers easy for Skrull shapeshifting to simulate, smarts can be simulated by knowledge of advanced Skrull science, Skrulls familiar with him, Skrulls hate him).

The fact that Reed stretches and the most basic of Skrulls can probably do that to me eliminates him right there. It needs to be someone where the other characters will have absolutely no idea how they were able to pass themselves off as genuine. They should be very scared by that fact too.

The fact that Reed stretches and the most basic of Skrulls can probably do that to me eliminates him right there. It needs to be someone where the other characters will have absolutely no idea how they were able to pass themselves off as genuine. They should be very scared by that fact too.

But wouldn't the fact that the Skrull Reed (or whomever) was undetected by: Wolverine, Daredevil, Xavier, Emma Frost, Iron Man's tech, Strange's Magic, Spidey's Spider-Sense, SHIELD tech, The Hand's Magic, Baxter Building tech and/or Uatu be scary enough?

But wouldn't the fact that the Skrull Reed (or whomever) was undetected by: Wolverine, Daredevil, Xavier, Emma Frost, Iron Man's tech, Strange's Magic, Spidey's Spider-Sense, SHIELD tech, The Hand's Magic, Baxter Building tech and/or Uatu be scary enough?

True enough. Don't forget that non-interference doesn't mean Uatu doesn't know something.

And don't forget that Strange hooks up with the main holdouts of the Civil War. In theory, most other heroes activities are accounted for via the Initiative. Except the NA who can still wander into anything, which they indeed did. Blah, blah, blah.

Anyways, let's do this. What does it mean to be a Skrull for a particular character?

Elektra: that means that The Hand's (a massive criminal ninja operation) activities were being directed by an extraterrestrial for unknown purposes.

What would it mean if Reed Richards was a Skrull?

What would it mean if Reed Richards was a Skrull?

Marvel's First Family is infiltrated. The most advanced science on the planet is and has been available for study by the enemy. Same with interdimentional travel and the keys to the Negative Zone prison. The world's major defense against Dr. Doom and every other mad scientist on the planet is missing. And one of the most prominent people in the Marvel U is missing and no one had a clue he was gone or how long an impostor has been in his place.

What about if Strange is a Skrull?

What would it mean if Reed Richards was a Skrull?

Look at Infinity War #1.

Huge damage was done by replacing him. All the heroes almost got wiped out in one fell swoop.

And what about Hawkeye in Disassembled? joking about "It must be all the green?", and dying while fighting (of all things) a Kree army shouting..."Not like this!"

Could it be that the Clint we saw in Disassembled was a Skrull?

And what about Hawkeye in Disassembled? joking about "It must be all the green?", and dying while fighting (of all things) a Kree army shouting..."Not like this!"

Could it be that the Clint we saw in Disassembled was a Skrull?

But then why the "heroic" death?

But then why the "heroic" death?

He would have gone out killing Kree. Thats not a problem for a Skrull.

He would have gone out killing Kree. Thats not a problem for a Skrull.

Hawkeye isn't a Skrull, but of all character he will have it the worst and probably get it first. His return is 100% unverified (only a few even know about HoM, but more know that he appeared to die during Disassembled) especially if the Skrulls can do what they seem to be able to do and if for some reason Strange is no longer credible. Stark's verification may no longer be satisfactory. Poor Clint will have absolutely no place to go. People who are very real will take some big hits for the team before its done.

He would have gone out killing Kree. Thats not a problem for a Skrull.

Yeah, I suppose.

i still don't trust Spiderwoman....she has had her hands in everything..at the very least I believe that she has been handled by the Skrulls.

i still don't trust Spiderwoman....she has had her hands in everything..at the very least I believe that she has been handled by the Skrulls.

Yeah, I could see that. The cover with her looking lustfully at Iron Man definitely has me suspicious.

Yeah, I could see that. The cover with her looking lustfully at Iron Man definitely has me suspicious.

A Tony/Jessica relationship would probably be the weirdest thing ever. They haven't really gotten along since the Annual, and Tony has tried to arrest her numerous times since the War. I imagine a relationship between the two would probably be composed of them secretly trying to backstab each other every step of the way.

i still don't trust Spiderwoman....she has had her hands in everything..at the very least I believe that she has been handled by the Skrulls.

She totally has.

Ponytail-Hydra-Guy=100% SKRULLZ.

And...it just occurred to me that Spider-Woman and Tony dating would have to bleed over to the main Iron Man title. Hunh.

So, if the Skrulls have invaded Earth, where are the Kree? I understand that they're busy with the current Annihilation saga, but could they also, somehow, have invaded earth and be preparing to strike against the Skrulls should they reveal themselves? Is it far fetched to believe that the Kree prepared for the inevitability that their may be another Kree/Skrull War, particularly one involving the Earth given the feelings of the Skrulls towards the planet and the fact that the humans had often interfered with both of their plans?

So, if the Skrulls have invaded Earth, where are the Kree? I understand that they're busy with the current Annihilation saga, but could they also, somehow, have invaded earth and be preparing to strike against the Skrulls should they reveal themselves? Is it far fetched to believe that the Kree prepared for the inevitability that their may be another Kree/Skrull War, particularly one involving the Earth given the feelings of the Skrulls towards the planet and the fact that the humans had often interfered with both of their plans?

While they may be part of this I don't think so. This has been something has been brewing for a long time in the Marvel Universe. The Skrulls have been doing this incognito and I am not even sure that they are in regular contact with the rest of the empire.

Remember, the Skrulls believe that earth is theirs like the Jew and Muslim with jurusalem. I don't think the Kree have this going on.

While they may be part of this I don't think so. This has been something has been brewing for a long time in the Marvel Universe. The Skrulls have been doing this incognito and I am not even sure that they are in regular contact with the rest of the empire.

Remember, the Skrulls believe that earth is theirs like the Jew and Muslim with jurusalem. I don't think the Kree have this going on.

Sure, but the Kree hate the Skrulls. From a tactical standpoint, why would they let them get anywhere near controlling earth? I definitely could see the Kree, if not immediately then shortly thereafter make the earth a top priority.

Of course, this doesn't include such Kree as Captain Marvel, Marvel Boy, etc.

So, if the Skrulls have invaded Earth, where are the Kree?

Being treated by Night Nurse.

Look at Infinity War #1.

Huge damage was done by replacing him. All the heroes almost got wiped out in one fell swoop.

Still the Skrulls don't want trouble from the likes of Thanos, Magus, whatever. They should know full well that the Earth is a huge target for many other threats. If they win, what do they have in mind to defend their prize against Galactus, Dormammu, etc? Those threats don't vanish with the good guys.

Being treated by Night Nurse.

Exactly!

*as soon as I saw that panel, it started making me wonder immediately how big a stake the Kree had in the Secret Invasion.

i still don't trust Spiderwoman....she has had her hands in everything..at the very least I believe that she has been handled by the Skrulls.

I agree that Spider-woman has been a giant tool that has been manipulated and did so very willingly and eagerly. She's going to have a lot of soul searching to do. But I do think she's real. Although she is absolutely nothing like the Jessica Drew from Wolverine's early ongoing.

Sure, but the Kree hate the Skrulls. From a tactical standpoint, why would they let them get anywhere near controlling earth? I definitely could see the Kree, if not immediately then shortly thereafter make the earth a top priority.

Of course, this doesn't include such Kree as Captain Marvel, Marvel Boy, etc.

Well, it is call " Secret Invasion". The Kree proly don't know anything about it.

While they may be part of this I don't think so. This has been something has been brewing for a long time in the Marvel Universe. The Skrulls have been doing this incognito and I am not even sure that they are in regular contact with the rest of the empire.

Remember, the Skrulls believe that earth is theirs like the Jew and Muslim with jurusalem. I don't think the Kree have this going on.

The Kree are not very good at anything. They lost their best guy, Mar-vell to Earthlings, and their own guy, the Supreme Intelligence, deemed them to be a genetic dead and and tried to expunge 99% of them during Operation Galactic Storm so that the might have some potential again. The Skrulls have had numerous plots and campaigns, unsuccessful, but their at least taking shots on goal. The Kree just aren't about much. Other than appearing to kill Hawkeye which was a nice touch in hindsight.

Ok, I re read the Breakout and Sentry arcs of New Avengers and here's my thoughts: Reed's a Skrull. But he's not. A skrull is definately impersonating Reed Richards, but it hasn't taken over his identity completely.

In the Breakout arc Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are going to The Raft to talk to Sentry bout why he's there, on behalf of Reed Richards. Sentry, the most powerful being on the planet (who is known to the Skrulls, as we saw in the "flash back" in the Sentry arc) turned himself over to the authorities because he believes he killed his wife. But, what happens while he's there? A breakout. And between his conscious and Nelson's pleading, Sentry returns to action and is on the outside again.


I stipulate that this was ALL part of a Skrull masterplan to get Sentry out of jail but to make it appear to everyone and himself that he is still on the side of the "good guys". Why? Well the Skrulls know first hand how poerful he is, and that he could make a great secret weapon. But only if he and the heroes believe he's on their side. He wouldn't be ass effective as a villian. So why break him out at all? To return him to his Skrull handler: Lindsy Reynolds. His wife. Yup. His wife either really is dead and was replaced by a Skrull, or was a Skrull from the beginning.


What does this have to do with Reed Richards? Well Daredevil said that he was sent to talk to Sentry in the first place because Richards asked him to. But later in the Sentry arc, Tony confronts Reed who says he never spoke to DD about Sentry. Xavier says he thinks someone has messed with Richards' mind. This is very true, but then again when it comes to the Sentry everyone's mind has been messed with. That statement was a red herring to keep us off the scent. Skrull-Reed told DD to go to see the Sentry about his wife but Real-Reed never knew anything about it. Why bother? Because the date of their visit would coincide with the Skrull funded Raft Breakout. That would provide ample opportunity for (as I mentioned before) Sentry to both leave his cell and appear to be a hero at the same time. He never would've left huis cell if innocent lives weren't at stake.


So now the Skrulls have the most powerful hero on earth with one of their agents (Lindy) constantly survaling him and in his ear. This would also explain why Reed Richards has conrtadicted himself so much recently, especially in CW. One Reed is a Skrull and one is the Real Reed. It allows for a major character to have been taken over, but since the real reed was still around it doesn't reallt retcon anything major. With anything major they can say it was the real reed. Skrull Reed did the minor things.



What do you think?

Ok, I re read the Breakout and Sentry arcs of New Avengers and here's my thoughts: Reed's a Skrull. But he's not. A skrull is definately impersonating Reed Richards, but it hasn't taken over his identity completely.

In the Breakout arc Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are going to The Raft to talk to Sentry bout why he's there, on behalf of Reed Richards. Sentry, the most powerful being on the planet (who is known to the Skrulls, as we saw in the "flash back" in the Sentry arc) turned himself over to the authorities because he believes he killed his wife. But, what happens while he's there? A breakout. And between his conscious and Nelson's pleading, Sentry returns to action and is on the outside again.


I stipulate that this was ALL part of a Skrull masterplan to get Sentry out of jail but to make it appear to everyone and himself that he is still on the side of the "good guys". Why? Well the Skrulls know first hand how poerful he is, and that he could make a great secret weapon. But only if he and the heroes believe he's on their side. He wouldn't be ass effective as a villian. So why break him out at all? To return him to his Skrull handler: Lindsy Reynolds. His wife. Yup. His wife either really is dead and was replaced by a Skrull, or was a Skrull from the beginning.


What does this have to do with Reed Richards? Well Daredevil said that he was sent to talk to Sentry in the first place because Richards asked him to. But later in the Sentry arc, Tony confronts Reed who says he never spoke to DD about Sentry. Xavier says he thinks someone has messed with Richards' mind. This is very true, but then again when it comes to the Sentry everyone's mind has been messed with. That statement was a red herring to keep us off the scent. Skrull-Reed told DD to go to see the Sentry about his wife but Real-Reed never knew anything about it. Why bother? Because the date of their visit would coincide with the Skrull funded Raft Breakout. That would provide ample opportunity for (as I mentioned before) Sentry to both leave his cell and appear to be a hero at the same time. He never would've left huis cell if innocent lives weren't at stake.


So now the Skrulls have the most powerful hero on earth with one of their agents (Lindy) constantly survaling him and in his ear. This would also explain why Reed Richards has conrtadicted himself so much recently, especially in CW. One Reed is a Skrull and one is the Real Reed. It allows for a major character to have been taken over, but since the real reed was still around it doesn't reallt retcon anything major. With anything major they can say it was the real reed. Skrull Reed did the minor things.



What do you think?

Well, that is pretty much impossible to ignore. I do remember the part about Reed not knowing anything about sending Matt to check into the Sentry case.

Still in my mind there aren't two of someone running around, but rather only one Skrull replacement. I could be wrong, but that's my current thinking. Otherwise its going to be a nightmare sorting out which stories were the real guy and which stories were the replacement. You know? For me its either all-Skrull all the time, or not at all.

This is good work though. You got my vote as biggest fan boy because you know your stuff, if you don't know you find out, and you present it well.

Well, that is pretty much impossible to ignore. I do remember the part about Reed not knowing anything about sending Matt to check into the Sentry case.

Still in my mind there aren't two of someone running around, but rather only one Skrull replacement. I could be wrong, but that's my current thinking. Otherwise its going to be a nightmare sorting out which stories were the real guy and which stories were the replacement. You know? For me its either all-Skrull all the time, or not at all.

This is good work though. You got my vote as biggest fan boy because you know your stuff, if you don't know you find out, and you present it well.

Wow, thanks Jermaine. That really means a lot, especialy from you. :Oops:

As for the multiple Reeds thing. Look at it this way: you could have deep cover agents like Elektra where they completely take over their target's identity, and you could have Skrull free agents who only take over a person's identity at in very specific times in order to ensure the plas go smoothly. Yeah, it can open up a can of retcon worms, but if it's handled properly, they could definitively say "Yes, Real Reed did A, B, and D. Skrull Reed only did C".

I've been thinking that Lindy is a Skrull for a while now. It could make sense that the Skrulls would keep one of their agents around to quietly influence the Sentry, since they cannot harm or kill him.

The thing that punches a hole into that idea is the fact that we saw Lindy die. Ultron killed her in Mighty Avengers, and her body didn't seem to turn Skrully.

Wow, thanks Jermaine. That really means a lot, especialy from you. :Oops:

As for the multiple Reeds thing. Look at it this way: you could have deep cover agents like Elektra where they completely take over their target's identity, and you could have Skrull free agents who only take over a person's identity at in very specific times in order to ensure the plas go smoothly. Yeah, it can open up a can of retcon worms, but if it's handled properly, they could definitively say "Yes, Real Reed did A, B, and D. Skrull Reed only did C".

Could be. I mean so far I'm looking at this thing in absolutes. It could come out that a character like Reed Richards wouldn't know anything about certain specific interactions when confronted with them. The Skrulls would be no fan of Reed's after his refusal to let Galactus die resulted in the loss of their throneworld and favorite princess. That can't be forgotten. Breevort's on the case so I guess it is possible for an A, B, C, D thing to come into play. It would suck for the Illuminati if upon questioning Reed didn't know anything about having reassembled the Infinity Gems...

I really hope that Rick Jones survives World War Hulk because he should be a part of this Skrull storyline. And he should be allowed to interact with Mar-vell.

I've been thinking that Lindy is a Skrull for a while now. It could make sense that the Skrulls would keep one of their agents around to quietly influence the Sentry, since they cannot harm or kill him.

The thing that punches a hole into that idea is the fact that we saw Lindy die. Ultron killed her in Mighty Avengers, and her body didn't seem to turn Skrully.

I can't say what we saw just yet. I think there's more to it in some way or another.

Could be. I mean so far I'm looking at this thing in absolutes. It could come out that a character like Reed Richards wouldn't know anything about certain specific interactions when confronted with them. The Skrulls would be no fan of Reed's after his refusal to let Galactus die resulted in the loss of their throneworld and favorite princess. That can't be forgotten. Breevort's on the case so I guess it is possible for an A, B, C, D thing to come into play. It would suck for the Illuminati if upon questioning Reed didn't know anything about having reassembled the Infinity Gems...
But on the flip side, how cool would it bee if because of this, the Skrulls knew the location of all 6 infinity gems? Sekret War could end up being Infinity Gauntlet 2. And at the end of it, all the rifts between the heroes are healed for the forseeable future (nothing like possible genocide of your species to bring people together).

And I have a hairbrained notion that after Secret Invasion is all said and done, we'll have one Avenger's title once again; with members of the New and Mighty teams represented.

I really hope that Rick Jones survives World War Hulk because he should be a part of this Skrull storyline. And he should be allowed to interact with Mar-vell.
Agreed. Speaking of Rick Jones, did they ever explain what was up with his imposter in Alias? Wouldn't it be cool if that was an early Skrull attempt at usurping a character's identity that failed horribly and they learned from that mistake?

I can't say what we saw just yet. I think there's more to it in some way or another.

Exactly. For all we know, Lindy does turn into a skrull after the dust settles. That plus Jessica Drew bringing Tony Slrullektra could be what brings the Mighty Avengers into Secret Invasion.

I don't think Sentry's wife is a Skrull because...

she's dead. Ultron killed her and she didn't revert to a Skrull or anything.

I don't think Sentry's wife is a Skrull because...

she's dead. Ultron killed her and she didn't revert to a Skrull or anything.

What did we really see though? MA #6 hasn't shown the conclusion of that scene yet... ;)

What did we really see though? MA #6 hasn't shown the conclusion of that scene yet... ;)
Yep. We're getting ahead of ourselves there.

Nice thinking and it ties together two theories :)

And I like it cause I've been saying Reed is the Skrull all along :D

Anyways, here's something to discuss..

MGH. Mutant Growth Harmone (or whatever it's called)

Could this be a Skrull plot? Meaning, they've been trying to reverse engineer the heroes powers and someone mentioned mutants DNA being figured out.

So, let's say they figured that part out. To keep the street level heroes busy, they start giving the stuff out and hooking everyone. It'd be one way to move in on organizations like Kingpin's and the sort, while keeping the heroes busy chasing endless leads.

And where did it make its big return to comics? During Bendis' DD arc. It seemed to come from out of nowhere really at the time, despite it being around for a while.

Could this be how the Skrulls can replicate certain powers?

Oh, and about the Sentry plot..

Bendis did say a lot of this started in that first arc. Until now, everyone's believed that to be limited JUST to the breakout.

It'd definitely explain the inconsistencies and dead/alive aspects to Lindy.

And I'd love to see Skrulls temporarily replacing people to manipulate events. It's one thing to read a story where YOU'RE aware of the characters being manipulated.. it's another to experience it the same way they are.

If that makes sense.

I know what you mean. I think someone said it earlier in the thread. If we are aware of who is a skrull and what they are doing and we are watching the real heroes be manipulated and dig themselves into a hole or do something really stupid that plays into the skrulls hands then it will make it more powerful to watch. It will hopefully be like a horror movie where you are shouting at the screen for the good guy to not go down into the cellar because you just saw the maniac with a knife go hide down there.

If that makes sense!

It will just add to the sense of dread we will feel, knowing that the heroes are walking towards their own doom.

Ok, I re read the Breakout and Sentry arcs of New Avengers and here's my thoughts: Reed's a Skrull. But he's not. A skrull is definately impersonating Reed Richards, but it hasn't taken over his identity completely.

In the Breakout arc Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are going to The Raft to talk to Sentry bout why he's there, on behalf of Reed Richards. Sentry, the most powerful being on the planet (who is known to the Skrulls, as we saw in the "flash back" in the Sentry arc) turned himself over to the authorities because he believes he killed his wife. But, what happens while he's there? A breakout. And between his conscious and Nelson's pleading, Sentry returns to action and is on the outside again.


I stipulate that this was ALL part of a Skrull masterplan to get Sentry out of jail but to make it appear to everyone and himself that he is still on the side of the "good guys". Why? Well the Skrulls know first hand how poerful he is, and that he could make a great secret weapon. But only if he and the heroes believe he's on their side. He wouldn't be ass effective as a villian. So why break him out at all? To return him to his Skrull handler: Lindsy Reynolds. His wife. Yup. His wife either really is dead and was replaced by a Skrull, or was a Skrull from the beginning.


What does this have to do with Reed Richards? Well Daredevil said that he was sent to talk to Sentry in the first place because Richards asked him to. But later in the Sentry arc, Tony confronts Reed who says he never spoke to DD about Sentry. Xavier says he thinks someone has messed with Richards' mind. This is very true, but then again when it comes to the Sentry everyone's mind has been messed with. That statement was a red herring to keep us off the scent. Skrull-Reed told DD to go to see the Sentry about his wife but Real-Reed never knew anything about it. Why bother? Because the date of their visit would coincide with the Skrull funded Raft Breakout. That would provide ample opportunity for (as I mentioned before) Sentry to both leave his cell and appear to be a hero at the same time. He never would've left huis cell if innocent lives weren't at stake.


So now the Skrulls have the most powerful hero on earth with one of their agents (Lindy) constantly survaling him and in his ear. This would also explain why Reed Richards has conrtadicted himself so much recently, especially in CW. One Reed is a Skrull and one is the Real Reed. It allows for a major character to have been taken over, but since the real reed was still around it doesn't reallt retcon anything major. With anything major they can say it was the real reed. Skrull Reed did the minor things.



What do you think?

I like this a lot.

Nice thinking and it ties together two theories :)

And I like it cause I've been saying Reed is the Skrull all along :D

Anyways, here's something to discuss..

MGH. Mutant Growth Harmone (or whatever it's called)

Could this be a Skrull plot? Meaning, they've been trying to reverse engineer the heroes powers and someone mentioned mutants DNA being figured out.

So, let's say they figured that part out. To keep the street level heroes busy, they start giving the stuff out and hooking everyone. It'd be one way to move in on organizations like Kingpin's and the sort, while keeping the heroes busy chasing endless leads.

And where did it make its big return to comics? During Bendis' DD arc. It seemed to come from out of nowhere really at the time, despite it being around for a while.

Could this be how the Skrulls can replicate certain powers?
:shock:
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6480/guinnesscommercialvf7.jpg
BRILLIANT!

Bring back some dire wraiths and them i'll read it...lol!

Here's a possible Skrull design for Secret Invasion, by Leinil Yu:

http://leinilyu.deviantart.com/art/Skrulls-66532231

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs19/f/2007/277/d/1/Skrulls_by_leinilyu.jpg

Another crazy theory from yours truly:

One of the Mighty Avengers is a Skrull, Bendis has said as much. Originally, I was guessing it was Wonder Man, but I'm starting to think otherwise.

I'm thinking its Black Widow. How long has she been a Skrull you may ask?

She's always been a Skrull.

The Black Widow is technically 90 years old or something like that, and its been stated that she took some kind of serum or something along those lines to keep her young, like Nick Fury.

What I'm thinking, is that the real Black Widow died during WW2 and this Widow has been a Skrull ever since she first popped up in the comics. It would explain how she went from a hardcore Russian KGB spy to a superhero.

Another crazy theory from yours truly:

One of the Mighty Avengers is a Skrull, Bendis has said as much. Originally, I was guessing it was Wonder Man, but I'm starting to think otherwise.

I'm thinking its Black Widow. How long has she been a Skrull you may ask?

She's always been a Skrull.

The Black Widow is technically 90 years old or something like that, and its been stated that she took some kind of serum or something along those lines to keep her young, like Nick Fury.

What I'm thinking, is that the real Black Widow died during WW2 and this Widow has been a Skrull ever since she first popped up in the comics. It would explain how she went from a hardcore Russian KGB spy to a superhero.

I'm almost positive she's not. Bru seems to be doing something with her in Cap.

I'm almost positive she's not. Bru seems to be doing something with her in Cap.

In a recent interview, Bendis said something along the lines of the fact that the thought balloons from the characters actually showed you who was a skrull.

Didn't they never have Widow think anything throughout the run or am I wrong on that?

http://web.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/redherring.gif

Didn't they never have Widow think anything throughout the run or am I wrong on that?

She thought a few things in the first three issues. Though she's probably the one whose thought balloons we've seen the least (or maybe that's Jan).

Another crazy theory from yours truly:

One of the Mighty Avengers is a Skrull, Bendis has said as much. Originally, I was guessing it was Wonder Man, but I'm starting to think otherwise.

I'm thinking its Black Widow. How long has she been a Skrull you may ask?

She's always been a Skrull.

The Black Widow is technically 90 years old or something like that, and its been stated that she took some kind of serum or something along those lines to keep her young, like Nick Fury.

What I'm thinking, is that the real Black Widow died during WW2 and this Widow has been a Skrull ever since she first popped up in the comics. It would explain how she went from a hardcore Russian KGB spy to a superhero.
She could be a Skrull right now, but I don't think she's been one forever. WWII was long before the Skrulls first came to earth and (i would assume) long before they developed the new skills that allow them to hide from most tech, magicks and enhanced sences. Hell even Magus couldn't fool Wolverine and Daredevil's sences using Cosmic Cubes during Infinity War.
Also, was she an Avenger during the Kree-Skrull War? If so, why sisn't she reveal herself then? That was the equivalent of the Skrull Holy War, you'd think they would've pulled out all the big guns to win.

In a recent interview, Bendis said something along the lines of the fact that the thought balloons from the characters actually showed you who was a skrull.

Didn't they never have Widow think anything throughout the run or am I wrong on that?

Where is the interview? I wanna see exactly how he words it. i.e. does he say some one on MA is a Skrull or someone is working for a skrull or something else?

She could be a Skrull right now, but I don't think she's been one forever. WWII was long before the Skrulls first came to earth and (i would assume) long before they developed the new skills that allow them to hide from most tech, magicks and enhanced sences. Hell even Magus couldn't fool Wolverine and Daredevil's sences using Cosmic Cubes during Infinity War.Also, was she an Avenger during the Kree-Skrull War? If so, why sisn't she reveal herself then? That was the equivalent of the Skrull Holy War, you'd think they would've pulled out all the big guns to win.

I love you for remembering that. I remember reading that issue when I was around 13 like "what? Wolverine's sense of smell is more heightened than Daredevil's!?? Bullshit!"

I hope the Black Widow isn't a Skrull, anyway. I lurve her. And I'm hoping she's the Mighty Avenger that switches teams (I'm still somewhat surprised that she sided with the Pro-Registration people).

I love you for remembering that. I remember reading that issue when I was around 13 like "what? Wolverine's sense of smell is more heightened than Daredevil's!?? Bullshit!"

I always dislike when it's written that way. Logan has enhanced senses too and all, but I prefer when DD is sort of the end all be all of enhanced senses. I know Bendis likes to write them in such a way that they're pretty much equal.

She could be a Skrull right now, but I don't think she's been one forever. WWII was long before the Skrulls first came to earth and (i would assume) long before they developed the new skills that allow them to hide from most tech, magicks and enhanced sences. Hell even Magus couldn't fool Wolverine and Daredevil's sences using Cosmic Cubes during Infinity War.
Also, was she an Avenger during the Kree-Skrull War? If so, why sisn't she reveal herself then? That was the equivalent of the Skrull Holy War, you'd think they would've pulled out all the big guns to win.
The Skrulls have been spying on Earth since at least the 1950's. http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/zirksuskrull.htm

It's certainly not a stretch to believe they may been doing it even earlier than that.

I always dislike when it's written that way. Logan has enhanced senses too and all, but I prefer when DD is sort of the end all be all of enhanced senses. I know Bendis likes to write them in such a way that they're pretty much equal.

That's always been my view of it,too. But then thinking about it, I could see how Wolverine would be the "end all be all" of scent, while Daredevil the other senses. It makes "scents" that way, too.

I'm almost positive she's not. Bru seems to be doing something with her in Cap.

If not for her strong ties to Daredevil (that would be him taking a hit over both Elektra and Black Widow being aliens at some point during his involvement with them) and recent developments with the Winter Soldier, I might could go with that idea. The team is too solid. Meaning that their powers would be hard to duplicate smoothly, they're involved in other important storylines or have their own title. And so far there's no supporting cast to look at either. Some customers think I should be looking at Wonder Man, but I don't know about that.

The Skrulls have been spying on Earth since at least the 1950's. http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/zirksuskrull.htm

It's certainly not a stretch to believe they may been doing it even earlier than that.

Spying yes, but this type of infiltration (made possible by what was learned from each member of the Illuminati when they carelessly allowed themselves to be captured) is something new as I see it. These Skrulls might be a part of some special program like Super Skrull.

The Skrulls have been spying on Earth since at least the 1950's. http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/zirksuskrull.htm

It's certainly not a stretch to believe they may been doing it even earlier than that.

Right but from reading Bendis interviews the Secret Invasion idea did not come to them until after they got their asses handed to them from the superheroes with a frontal invasion.

I love you for remembering that. I remember reading that issue when I was around 13 like "what? Wolverine's sense of smell is more heightened than Daredevil's!?? Bullshit!"

Me too :)
Though I can't take too much credit for a good memory, I read it for the first time this year ;)

Right but from reading Bendis interviews the Secret Invasion idea did not come to them until after they got their asses handed to them from the superheroes with a frontal invasion.

That's how I thought it was going too.

Me too :)
Though I can't take too much credit for a good memory, I read it for the first time this year ;)

Wow, now I'm actually tempted to get the Infinity War tpb. I remember it definitely not being nearly as good as the Infinity Gauntlet, even back when I originally read it,but...still, the pull of nostalgia is strong.

I'm re-reading The Murdock Papers and Devil In Cell Block D arcs of DD and I have a question. When does everyone thing Elektra was replaced with Skrullectra?

I was originally going on the assumption that it was after her most recent death in Wolverine:Enemy Of The State, but I totally forgot she showed up in a pretty major capacity in DD. In Murdock Papers she shows up and helps DD fight Bullseye and she takes him to the Night Nurse when he's shot by Paladin. And Later, in Bru's run, she shows up to save Foggy when he's targeted while in protected custody. So, were either of these Skrullectra? Both? Neither? Theories?

I'm re-reading The Murdock Papers and Devil In Cell Block D arcs of DD and I have a question. When does everyone thing Elektra was replaced with Skrullectra?

I was originally going on the assumption that it was after her most recent death in Wolverine:Enemy Of The State, but I totally forgot she showed up in a pretty major capacity in DD. In Murdock Papers she shows up and helps DD fight Bullseye and she takes him to the Night Nurse when he's shot by Paladin. And Later, in Bru's run, she shows up to save Foggy when he's targeted while in protected custody. So, were either of these Skrullectra? Both? Neither? Theories?

But even in Murdock Papers, DD says to the Widow something like "She's [Elektra's] not lying. I know what she smells like when she is lying." Maybe she did not smell that way because she was not Elektra at that point too?

I think that the real Electra is laying low. She's popped up in Daredevil's life where needed.

By the way, Zirksu, the Skrull running around in those Marvel Premiere books was never captured. So he could be still running around on Earth now. (Unless the Skrull Kill Crew got him)

Probably mentioned before, but....

I'd love to see a Madrox dupe be a skrull and get reabsorbed and then watch Jamie's head explode with the onslaught of information.

there has to be one running around out there.

I'm re-reading The Murdock Papers and Devil In Cell Block D arcs of DD and I have a question. When does everyone thing Elektra was replaced with Skrullectra?

I was originally going on the assumption that it was after her most recent death in Wolverine:Enemy Of The State, but I totally forgot she showed up in a pretty major capacity in DD. In Murdock Papers she shows up and helps DD fight Bullseye and she takes him to the Night Nurse when he's shot by Paladin. And Later, in Bru's run, she shows up to save Foggy when he's targeted while in protected custody. So, were either of these Skrullectra? Both? Neither? Theories?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I believe that Elektra would have been a Skrull during that time. Because she was left in charge of The Hand at the end of Enemy of the State. If she was switched out while in the midst of The Hand surely something would have been noticed, but not if she was what she was from the moment she came in there. If you're a Skrull you have to do all the right things, say the right things, react in the right ways, as best you can. Or better. Meaning that if Elektra is a Skrull agent and Matt Murdock is in trouble, you probably have to get involved to assist him if you can. Same as Dr. Strange, Reed Richards, or whomever still has to do their best to save the Earth/ reality when it is in danger.

I'm re-reading The Murdock Papers and Devil In Cell Block D arcs of DD and I have a question. When does everyone thing Elektra was replaced with Skrullectra?

I was originally going on the assumption that it was after her most recent death in Wolverine:Enemy Of The State, but I totally forgot she showed up in a pretty major capacity in DD. In Murdock Papers she shows up and helps DD fight Bullseye and she takes him to the Night Nurse when he's shot by Paladin. And Later, in Bru's run, she shows up to save Foggy when he's targeted while in protected custody. So, were either of these Skrullectra? Both? Neither? Theories?

Though at this point it seems likeliest that Elektra was replaced during Enemy of the State, that would mean that she was a Skrull in the Murdock Papers...which I really wouldn't like. I get the feeling that, with Elektra, they'll go with the thing Brevoort mentioned, where a Skrull doesn't replace a character "permanently", but instead sort of swoops in and out during replacements.

Though at this point it seems likeliest that Elektra was replaced during Enemy of the State, that would mean that she was a Skrull in the Murdock Papers...which I really wouldn't like. I get the feeling that, with Elektra, they'll go with the thing Brevoort mentioned, where a Skrull doesn't replace a character "permanently", but instead sort of swoops in and out during replacements.

And it's not really a cop out when you think about it, because what kind of accountability is there really for where all these characters are at any given time. We keep saying "replaced" when it could be much simpler than that for some instances. I mean if I wanted to pass myself off as my roommate at the high school reunion, I don't necessarily have to "get rid of" him to do so. If he's not planning on going anyway, all i need is an effective disguise. How would anybody there know that he wasn't actually at home playing XBox?

These characters are all over the freaking place all the time. You could assume their identities anywhere and anytime without actually having to "replace" them if all you needed was to pick up a piece of info here or pass along a bit of info there.

I don't doubt that there are some actual long-term replacements in place, but i bet there is also going to be lots of little things like skrulls sneaking in while a hero is in the bathroom and being all like, "Oh by the way, did i mention...." and then taking off again.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I believe that Elektra would have been a Skrull during that time. Because she was left in charge of The Hand at the end of Enemy of the State. If she was switched out while in the midst of The Hand surely something would have been noticed, but not if she was what she was from the moment she came in there. If you're a Skrull you have to do all the right things, say the right things, react in the right ways, as best you can. Or better. Meaning that if Elektra is a Skrull agent and Matt Murdock is in trouble, you probably have to get involved to assist him if you can. Same as Dr. Strange, Reed Richards, or whomever still has to do their best to save the Earth/ reality when it is in danger.

Yeah, but what about Foggy? Matt never would've known that Foggy was in danger, nor would he have known that Elektra could've saved him. That seemed like genuine Elektra "I love Matt Murdock, I couldn't kill Foggy years ago, and I can't let him die now" thing.

All of that said, when is the next time that Elektra showed up in an in continuity comic? Post CW in NA? That's a long time. Elektra could've been swapped out anytime between then.

I don't doubt that there are some actual long-term replacements in place, but i bet there is also going to be lots of little things like skrulls sneaking in while a hero is in the bathroom and being all like, "Oh by the way, did i mention...." and then taking off again.
That's my thoughts on Reed. Every day I get closer to being 100% sure about that.

And it's not really a cop out when you think about it, because what kind of accountability is there really for where all these characters are at any given time. We keep saying "replaced" when it could be much simpler than that for some instances. I mean if I wanted to pass myself off as my roommate at the high school reunion, I don't necessarily have to "get rid of" him to do so. If he's not planning on going anyway, all i need is an effective disguise. How would anybody there know that he wasn't actually at home playing XBox?

These characters are all over the freaking place all the time. You could assume their identities anywhere and anytime without actually having to "replace" them if all you needed was to pick up a piece of info here or pass along a bit of info there.

I don't doubt that there are some actual long-term replacements in place, but i bet there is also going to be lots of little things like skrulls sneaking in while a hero is in the bathroom and being all like, "Oh by the way, did i mention...." and then taking off again.

Yeah, I agree. Although at the same time, the Skrulls have to be very careful with this stuff, and their "temporary replacements" must be very calculated. Because otherwise they run the risk of other characters going "Hey, remember the time when we talked about..." and the character that was replaced would go, "What? When did that happen?".

Though at this point it seems likeliest that Elektra was replaced during Enemy of the State, that would mean that she was a Skrull in the Murdock Papers...which I really wouldn't like. I get the feeling that, with Elektra, they'll go with the thing Brevoort mentioned, where a Skrull doesn't replace a character "permanently", but instead sort of swoops in and out during replacements.

Even while laying low though, I find it hard to believe that Elektra would not know that she was controlling The Hand or more specifically trying to recruit Ronin into one of their own. That would be like Fury not knowing what his LMDs have been involved in while he is laying low.

Yeah, I agree. Although at the same time, the Skrulls have to be very careful with this stuff, and their "temporary replacements" must be very calculated. Because otherwise they run the risk of other characters going "Hey, remember the time when we talked about..." and the character that was replaced would go, "What? When did that happen?".

Well, given that the only ironclad way of exposing the invasion is killing a skrull masquerading as a human, you'd also think they wouldn't assume the identity of someone who could wind up killed...you know, like Electra. I mean why assume the identity of somebody fighting in a super-powered civil war over somebody in the mail room who is a lot less likely to wind up dead and therefore expose your whole plot?

so they are playing a little fast and loose with this conspiracy to begin with.

Well, given that the only ironclad way of exposing the invasion is killing a skrull masquerading as a human, you'd also think they wouldn't assume the identity of someone who could wind up killed...you know, like Electra. I mean why assume the identity of somebody fighting in a super-powered civil war over somebody in the mail room who is a lot less likely to wind up dead and therefore expose your whole plot?

so they are playing a little fast and loose with this conspiracy to begin with.

That Elektra was fighting just like Elektra. Knew how to do what she knew. In theory though, while fighting the Avengers (even the New ones) she would have had no reason to expect to be mortally wounded by one of them. Beaten up or captured even? Sure. Killed by knife attack? No reason to anticipate that.

That Elektra was fighting just like Elektra. Knew how to do what she knew. In theory though, while fighting the Avengers (even the New ones) she would have had no reason to expect to be mortally wounded by one of them. Beaten up or captured even? Sure. Killed by knife attack? No reason to anticipate that.

I was mostly joking, her being the most-killed character in the whole Marvel universe and all.

But to a larger point, the fact that she finds herself in fights at all (skilled as she is) is reason enough NOT to replace her if not getting the imposter killed is paramount to the plot not getting discovered.

I know they probably targeted characters in power positions, but i still think it is funny that if they were really focused on making sure the imposters didn't wind up dead, they would found another way to influence the power centers with people who weren't getting into fights a lot.

Jury duty stinks :D

I'm half tempted to check out that ALIEN AGENDA book that made an appearance in Secret War just to see if there's any clues past the title itself.

Has anyone flipped through it?

Anyone up to speed on Dethlok?

I'm asking here since you guys seem to have a good handle on continuity and what not.

Just wondering if he might play a more important role with it being so close to the crossover.

Here's a very unlikely, crazy, no chance in hell of being true theory, but..

Stark and gang have gotten close to perfecting the cloning thing, right? Is there even a remote chance that the heroes after regaining possession of Dethlok decide to download his consciousness into a new clone body?

And said body being drafted by SHIELD to be the new Captain America?

Like I said, not even remotely true, but just trying to figure out if there might be more to Dethlok than just background scenery.

On Elektra, I think she's been a Skrull ever since she "returned" after her death.

Hell the pieces for the Secret Invasion could have been put into place with Bendis' run on Elektra so long ago. Does anyone have that by any chance to see if there are any clues in there?

Anyone up to speed on Dethlok?

I'm asking here since you guys seem to have a good handle on continuity and what not.

Just wondering if he might play a more important role with it being so close to the crossover.

Here's a very unlikely, crazy, no chance in hell of being true theory, but..

Stark and gang have gotten close to perfecting the cloning thing, right? Is there even a remote chance that the heroes after regaining possession of Dethlok decide to download his consciousness into a new clone body?

And said body being drafted by SHIELD to be the new Captain America?

Like I said, not even remotely true, but just trying to figure out if there might be more to Dethlok than just background scenery.

I don't know much about the original Deathlok, Luther Manning. But the 2nd Deathlok, Michael Collins is no longer in the suit and was last seen hanging out at the baxter building with the Old New FF (BP, Storm, Thing, HT) post Civil War.

Ok, I'm leaning more and more towards the following happening at the end of WWH, which dovetails into SI somewhat.

Before WWH ends, Rick Jones will be dead.

This is what will shock Hulk out of what he's doing. Miek will argue that Jones is unimportant and Hulk ends up decimating Miek, which causes the Warbound to turn on him.

There was talk of how before WWH ends, Banner will be scarred for life. And that's the only thing he's got left at this point.

Add in the solicits for THE HULK, where "..a murder mystery as one of the oldest characters in Hulk's universe meets a grisly end.." and given how many characters are left from the old days, it doesn't leave a lot of room for speculation.

Anyways.. it says that it looks as if Hulk is the one responsible.

How could that happen, unless someone was masquerading as the Hulk?

And who could do that? A Skrull.

And why? Revenge for the first Kree/Skrull war.. taking him out and framing the Hulk would keep the heroes/Hulk conflict going as well as imbolizing Hulk now that he's back. It'd also remove Rick from potentially messing with the new invasion.

Ok, I'm leaning more and more towards the following happening at the end of WWH, which dovetails into SI somewhat.

Before WWH ends, Rick Jones will be dead.

This is what will shock Hulk out of what he's doing. Miek will argue that Jones is unimportant and Hulk ends up decimating Miek, which causes the Warbound to turn on him.

There was talk of how before WWH ends, Banner will be scarred for life. And that's the only thing he's got left at this point.

Add in the solicits for THE HULK, where "..a murder mystery as one of the oldest characters in Hulk's universe meets a grisly end.." and given how many characters are left from the old days, it doesn't leave a lot of room for speculation.

Anyways.. it says that it looks as if Hulk is the one responsible.

How could that happen, unless someone was masquerading as the Hulk?

And who could do that? A Skrull.

And why? Revenge for the first Kree/Skrull war.. taking him out and framing the Hulk would keep the heroes/Hulk conflict going as well as imbolizing Hulk now that he's back. It'd also remove Rick from potentially messing with the new invasion.

Assuming it's even the real Rick Jones. Who's to say that the Rick Jones in Alias wasn't a poorly trained initial attempt at a Skrull takeover of Rick Jones' life?

On the other hand, Cpt. Marvel is getting his ongoing soon, and I seriously doubt we won't see him eventually meet up with Rick Jones.

Assuming it's even the real Rick Jones. Who's to say that the Rick Jones in Alias wasn't a poorly trained initial attempt at a Skrull takeover of Rick Jones' life?

On the other hand, Cpt. Marvel is getting his ongoing soon, and I seriously doubt we won't see him eventually meet up with Rick Jones.

True, although, they tried that.

Hulk 375

Town full of Skrulls, Rick is being chased by them, etc.

And yeah, I thought the same thing about CM, but there's no sign of him appearing at all so far. And you need to launch strong these days unless you have a REALLY good hook/guest star.

Of course, no one really thought they'd kill Cap either.

Ok, I'm leaning more and more towards the following happening at the end of WWH, which dovetails into SI somewhat.

Before WWH ends, Rick Jones will be dead.

This is what will shock Hulk out of what he's doing. Miek will argue that Jones is unimportant and Hulk ends up decimating Miek, which causes the Warbound to turn on him.

There was talk of how before WWH ends, Banner will be scarred for life. And that's the only thing he's got left at this point.

Add in the solicits for THE HULK, where "..a murder mystery as one of the oldest characters in Hulk's universe meets a grisly end.." and given how many characters are left from the old days, it doesn't leave a lot of room for speculation.

Anyways.. it says that it looks as if Hulk is the one responsible.

How could that happen, unless someone was masquerading as the Hulk?

And who could do that? A Skrull.

And why? Revenge for the first Kree/Skrull war.. taking him out and framing the Hulk would keep the heroes/Hulk conflict going as well as imbolizing Hulk now that he's back. It'd also remove Rick from potentially messing with the new invasion.

I was thinking, maybe that stuff about an old Hulk-related character dying is just a clever way of saying that Bruce Banner will die. Whether or not the Hulk would die, I don't know, but I have heard people speculate that the red Hulk could be created by a merger of the Hulk and the Void. Could that mean that the new Hulk is perhaps Robert Reynolds?

Well, it'd explain how he could punch out a Watcher if so.

But yeah, I heard the R.R. thing too.

Just not sure how it could happen.

Solicits indicate that there will be some SI clues in the Captain Marvel series. Looks like he'll be really involved in the conflict.

On the other hand, Cpt. Marvel is getting his ongoing soon, and I seriously doubt we won't see him eventually meet up with Rick Jones.
He is? You mean Mar-Vell is getting an ongoing after the miniseries is over?

The Secret Invasion engines are starting to rev up. Here's something Bendis posted earlier:

Secret Invasion: Infiltration Begins!



It’s the event over five years in the making and now that the Skrulls’ plans have come to light, it’s time for Secret Invasion: Infiltration to be exposed! All Marvel titles bearing the Secret Invasion: Infiltration banner provide crucial tie-ins to the most anticipated event of 2008—Secret Invasion. If you want to know everything about the machinations of the shape shifting Skrulls, the secret agents hiding in the Marvel Universe and just how the heroes prepare for the most explosive battle of 2008, then you can’t miss an issue of the Infiltration!



In New Avengers: Illuminati #5, by the red-hot creative team of writers Brian Bendis, Brian Reed and artist Jimmy Cheung, the mysterious Illuminati come together to discuss the shocking discovery in New Avengers #31—the Skrull body of Elektra! As this evidence of invasion is presented to the group, they must decide what this means to the future of Earth and who they can trust! By the end of the issue, the Illuminati will never be the same again as a jaw dropping revelation with the team—and readers—stunned. War is declared…but by who?



Then, in Avengers: The Initiative Annual #1, from acclaimed author Dan Slott and a line-up of fan-favorite artists including Salvador Larroca, Clayton Henry, Patrick Scherberger and cover artist Jimmy Cheung, secrets of the Initiative are revealed! As the hidden origins of MVP, Armory, Hardball and more are brought to light, readers will gain insight into the inner workings of Tony Stark’s bold new vision…and into the Skrull invasion? You’ll never guess how it all comes together and just who is responsible for this deception!



This November, the next stage of the Skrull offensive is uncovered in Secret Invasion: Infiltration and there’s no going back for the Marvel Universe! Lives will be shattered as every hero and villain is forced to ask…Who Do You Trust?



Don’t miss the opening salvos in New Avengers: Illuminati #5 and Avengers: The Initiative Annual #1!



AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE ANNUAL #1 (SEP072183)

Written by DAN SLOTT

Penciled by SALVADOR LARROCA, TOM FEISTER, STEVE UY, PATRICK SCHERBERGER AND CLAYTON HENRY

Cover by JIM CHEUNG

Rated T+ …$3.99

FOC—10/18/07, On-Sale-11/7/07



NEW AVENGERS: ILLUMINATI #5 (of 5) (SEP072217)

Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS & BRIAN REED

Pencils & Cover by JIM CHEUNG

Rated T+ …$2.99

FOC—10/18/07, On-Sale-11/7/07



To find a comic shop near you, call 1-888-comicbook

The Initiative banner is being replaced by a SI banner, it seems. Bit early for that, I would think.

Then, in Avengers: The Initiative Annual #1, from acclaimed author Dan Slott and a line-up of fan-favorite artists including Salvador Larroca, Clayton Henry, Patrick Scherberger and cover artist Jimmy Cheung, secrets of the Initiative are revealed! As the hidden origins of MVP, Armory, Hardball and more are brought to light, readers will gain insight into the inner workings of Tony Stark’s bold new vision…and into the Skrull invasion? You’ll never guess how it all comes together and just who is responsible for this deception!


Here's hoping we called this part long ago :D

And here is some colored preview art for Illuminati #5, which according to Jim McCann is apparently coming out in November after all and not being delayed due to Mighty Avengers:

http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=231&itemid=10557

Strange looks a lot better colored.

That having been said, who could conceivably get away with being a Skrull at this meeting and walk away?

Xavier can shut down someone's mind. Blackbolt could shatter someone.

Reed could get away as could intangible Strange.

Stark isn't a Skrull.

Namor's too stupid and self righteous :D

Strange looks a lot better colored.

That having been said, who could conceivably get away with being a Skrull at this meeting and walk away?

Xavier can shut down someone's mind. Blackbolt could shatter someone.

Reed could get away as could intangible Strange.

Stark isn't a Skrull.

Namor's too stupid and self righteous :D

Wow, I totally just realized that Strange is in his astral form there. Guess that must rule out the possibility of him being the Skrull, right? Skrulls can't become intangible, as far as I know.

My bet is on Namor now.

Wow, I totally just realized that Strange is in his astral form there. Guess that must rule out the possibility of him being the Skrull, right? Skrulls can't become intangible, as far as I know.

My bet is on Namor now.

Skrulls are actually able to mimic a good number of their foes' powers. I think they showed this in an old xmen comic when the team gets sent to a past Skrull world.

It could be entirely possible that Strange could be a Skrull and the Skrull is attempting to mimic Strange's powers, explaining why Strange's powers have been kinda lackluster as of late.

Wow, I totally just realized that Strange is in his astral form there. Guess that must rule out the possibility of him being the Skrull, right? Skrulls can't become intangible, as far as I know.

My bet is on Namor now.

As set up in Illuminati #1...there are skrulls versed in magic. They were going to have them research Strange's Cloak and Eye of Agamatto if I remember correctly.

Okay, Strange might still be a Skrull. I can't see it being Reed because Millar is going to be writing FF and he's promised that his run will be self-contained. Tony isn't a Skrull. That leaves Strange, Namor, Black Bolt and Xavier.

Xavier went to space in that Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar story, didn't he? Did they run into any Skrulls there?

Okay, Strange might still be a Skrull. I can't see it being Reed because Millar is going to be writing FF and he's promised that his run will be self-contained. Tony isn't a Skrull. That leaves Strange, Namor, Black Bolt and Xavier.

Xavier went to space in that Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar story, didn't he? Did they run into any Skrulls there?

There were War Skrulls on a fueling space facility posing as Shi'ar who had ended up there because of Annihilation, as far as I know they all died, except one who ended up out in space.

Okay, Strange might still be a Skrull. I can't see it being Reed because Millar is going to be writing FF and he's promised that his run will be self-contained. Tony isn't a Skrull. That leaves Strange, Namor, Black Bolt and Xavier.

Xavier went to space in that Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar story, didn't he? Did they run into any Skrulls there?

Here's a breakdown of my thoughts:

Iron Man - Nope. Marvel won't undo Civil War like that. He's the most unlikely suspect.

Reed Richards - Possible. Would certainly play into the Skrull revenge scheme, but again that might undo a big part of Civil War. I don't see it happening. He was still able to invent some pretty crazy things that I doubt a Skrull could.

Namor - Unlikely, Namor is the most in character of them all.

Professor X - Possible, but seems unlikely once again as he seems to be in his own X-universe and I don't think the Xmen are really being brought into Secret Invasion.

Dr. Strange - One of my top choices. His powers have been strange lately, no pun intended. He seems to be able to do some astonishing things sometimes but other times he can't. Again, he's high on my suspicion list.

Black Bolt - Out of all the Illuminati, he's my number one suspect. His powers can be easily replicated and as the leader of an entire race of super powered beings, what Skrull wouldn't want that kind of power behind them? Not to mention the fact that the Hulk thoroughly thrashed him in World War Hulk is suspect considering how powerful Black Bolt is.

Okay, Strange might still be a Skrull. I can't see it being Reed because Millar is going to be writing FF and he's promised that his run will be self-contained. Tony isn't a Skrull. That leaves Strange, Namor, Black Bolt and Xavier.

Xavier went to space in that Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar story, didn't he? Did they run into any Skrulls there?

It can be self contained and Reed could have been replaced.

If Xavier was one, that's one explanation how a Skrull could leave that meeting alive after revealing himself.

Basically, Xavier's power works instantaneously. If he thinks it, he can take them out or hold them still.

Of course, if they figured out the mutant genome, they might be able to avoid that.. so there goes that theory.

And come to think of it, who's to say the Skrull makes it out of the meeting in the first place? It's possible they capture the Skrull. I can't see Stark not anticipating that, then again, he didn't think Hulk would return either.

BB would invalidate too many stories.

Namor does seem like a likely candidate then at this point. And it'd make the Cap on ice story even more dramatic.

So, I guess my order of preference would be:

Reed, then Namor.

It can be self contained and Reed could have been replaced.

If Xavier was one, that's one explanation how a Skrull could leave that meeting alive after revealing himself.

Basically, Xavier's power works instantaneously. If he thinks it, he can take them out or hold them still.

Of course, if they figured out the mutant genome, they might be able to avoid that.. so there goes that theory.

And come to think of it, who's to say the Skrull makes it out of the meeting in the first place? It's possible they capture the Skrull. I can't see Stark not anticipating that, then again, he didn't think Hulk would return either.

BB would invalidate too many stories.

Namor does seem like a likely candidate then at this point. And it'd make the Cap on ice story even more dramatic.

So, I guess my order of preference would be:

Reed, then Namor.

You're assuming that the skrull member reveal is to the other Illuminati and during the meeting. Isn't it possible that it's only revealed to the reader? The revelation spoken of in the solict could be that Tony had an inkling all along that something was going on and that was the main thrust behind Prison 42 and the Initiative.

You're assuming that the skrull member reveal is to the other Illuminati and during the meeting. Isn't it possible that it's only revealed to the reader? The revelation spoken of in the solict could be that Tony had an inkling all along that something was going on and that was the main thrust behind Prison 42 and the Initiative.

That's what I had figured. The reader would see who the Skrull was but no one else would. So we'd see how it would progress knowing full well whoever the Skrull was is still doing....Skrully things.

BB would invalidate too many stories.



Which stories? You mean like Silent War?

Seems to me that those stories would validate he was a Skrull even more. Declaring war on humanity, causing even more chaos for everyone.

I have a question. When did Earth become the Skrulls' "Jerusalem"?

It can be self contained and Reed could have been replaced.

The way Millar talks about his FF run, it seems like it's going to be a simple, old school tale that stands on its own, much like the Ultimates. I just don't see the Reed in FF being a Skrull if it's going to be like that, because it would necessarily have to tie into Secret Invasion, Illuminati, etc. Not to mention that, as someone else said, it'd probably undo certain bits of Civil War, which Marvel has already said they won't do. I could maaaaaaaaaaaybe see Hank being a Skrull, now that I think about it.

I get the feeling that the Skrull that will be revealed in Illuminati #5 won't be one that has replaced an Illuminati member for a long time. Instead, like Brevoort said, it's going to be a simple "swoop in swoop out" replacement, which would make sense for the Skrulls to do given that this meeting is going to deal with the Skrull Elektra. It'd be sensible on the Skrulls' part to send one of their agents to downplay any sort of fear or paranoia or whatever among the Illuminati, or perhaps to destroy the evidence.

Assuming it is a "swoop in swoop out" replacement, a one-off, I think it would make sense if the character that was replaced was missing in their book, at least temporarily. It's safer for the Skrulls that way. For example, Namor. He has a series going right now, which is told mostly in flashback, and in the sequences that take place in the present, he's disappeared and no one is aware of his whereabouts. Assuming Illuminati #5 takes place right after (since I think the end of the miniseries and #5 will come out at the same time), I could definitely see a Skrull replacing him for the meeting.

Which stories? You mean like Silent War?

Seems to me that those stories would validate he was a Skrull even more. Declaring war on humanity, causing even more chaos for everyone.

WWH #1.

Unless they have the power to destroy part of the moon the size of Jersey, it's unlikely.

And if they could fake something to stand up to Sentry, why bother with secrecy?

I could have sworn they stated the Skrull reveals themselves to the other members.

So I wikipedia'd "Skrulls" and had no idea they had an alternate branch that were magic users. This is more evidence for a Skrull, or Dire Wraith, impersonating Strange.

The Deviant branch would later split into two more groups, being the modern Skrulls and an anomaly called the Dire Wraiths, a parasitic race that could still shapeshift and had use of magic, but were not as technologically advanced as the Skrulls (the Dire Wraiths were eventually exterminated through the efforts of Rom Spaceknight).

I get the feeling that the Skrull that will be revealed in Illuminati #5 won't be one that has replaced an Illuminati member for a long time. Instead, like Brevoort said, it's going to be a simple "swoop in swoop out" replacement, which would make sense for the Skrulls to do given that this meeting is going to deal with the Skrull Elektra. It'd be sensible on the Skrulls' part to send one of their agents to downplay any sort of fear or paranoia or whatever among the Illuminati, or perhaps to destroy the evidence.


This too, makes sense.

I can see a swoop in to defuse the situation thing, but I could have swore they mentioned it happened a lot further back?

This too, makes sense.

I can see a swoop in to defuse the situation thing, but I could have swore they mentioned it happened a lot further back?

How about the reveal is that Dr. Strange that shows up for the meeting is the real Strange who spoke to The Watcher and went to meditate instead of participating in Civil War...and the skrull is the Strange who has been on NA since Civil War.

How about the reveal is that Dr. Strange that shows up for the meeting is the real Strange who spoke to The Watcher and went to meditate instead of participating in Civil War...and the skrull is the Strange who has been on NA since Civil War.

That would certainly explain why his powers have been so wonky in New Avengers.

That could work, but I'd prefer for it to be that he's losing the title of S.S.

That scene in WWH works a lot better if its the genuine article.

Especially since that speech with Iron Fist about replacements.

How about the reveal is that Dr. Strange that shows up for the meeting is the real Strange who spoke to The Watcher and went to meditate instead of participating in Civil War...and the skrull is the Strange who has been on NA since Civil War.

I seem to recall that one of the Illuminati has been a Skrull ever since the events of the first issue? Am I mistaken on that? I could've sworn Bendis said that at one point.

That would certainly explain why his powers have been so wonky in New Avengers.

I'm convinced his power wonkiness is connected with Mystic Arcana.

I seem to recall that one of the Illuminati has been a Skrull ever since the events of the first issue? Am I mistaken on that? I could've sworn Bendis said that at one point.

I don't know if they've said that, but I kind of doubt it. That would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. The first issue takes place right after the Kree/Skrull War, which was over thirty years ago. I think it would just piss too many people off.

I'm convinced his power wonkiness is connected with Mystic Arcana.

What happened in Mystic Arcana?

What happened in Mystic Arcana?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic_Arcana

The 10-page stories will focus on what Beard calls "the spine of Mystic Arcana": the quest of Dr. Strange adversary Ian McNee to collect all of The Cornerstones of Creation. David Sexton revealed that "the back up story [featuring Ian McNee] takes place in the present, which is roughly six months [after the death of Captain America]. Roughly a decade has passed since Dr. Strange [last encountered Ian McNee]."[3]

Paniccia promises that "by series end, we'll have two very powerful sorcerers in the Marvel Universe."[2] Additionally, Mystic Arcana's creative director David Sexton explains in a Newsarama interview that the "series is called Mystic Arcana...because the Minor Arcana of the Tarot will serve as a unifying element to the stories." He cites Magik as the representative of the Tarot minor arcana suit of swords, Black Knight for pentacles, Scarlet Witch for cups, and Nico Minoru for wands.[1] Sexton also reveals that the Tarot will serve as a driving force within the comic in addition to the creation of the story. "In 'The Mystic Arcana Book I: Air,' readers are introduced to a very special deck of Tarot cards [called The First Tarot]. The cards are magically connected with the world around them and they magically transform to represent the "real person" (i.e. Marvel character) that most embodies that particular card."[3]

---

Ian McNee subplot

In Mystic Arcana: Magik, McNee's journey begins in the mystical Serpent's Sea as he is drowning and freezing to death; he claims to be ignorant of who sent him there or why they want him dead. He invokes the deity Oshtur and she offers to save him if he helps to restore the magician Heka-Nut, the villain of Ashake and Magick's quest, with mystical power to save the magical realms. Ian agrees and Oshtur charges him to find the Cornerstones of Creation, the "aces" of the First Tarot. He begins by locating the sphinx Ammut, disguised as an ordinary woman, and invokes a contest for possession of the Sword of Bone: Ammut will pose McNee with a riddle, and if McNee guesses correctly, Ammut surrenders the Sword, but if McNee guesses incorrectly, Ammut will eat McNee's mind. McNee guesses correctly and gains the Sword of Bone, the Cornerstone of Air, disguised as a sword-shaped pendant on a necklace. Ammut then informs McNee his next task is to retrieve the Ebony Rose, the Cornerstone of Earth, from Morgan Le Fay.

Mystic Arcana: Black Knight finds McNee fighting his way into Avalon to meet Morgan Le Fay. He finally arrives and respectfully pleads with Le Fay to hand over the Rose for the sake of the magical universe. Le Fay discovers that McNee used a charm to make his voice sounds more like Le Fay's former mentor and lover Merlin in order to sway her more easily. She concludes that not only does McNee sound like Merlin, but also acts "mischievious" like Merlin, and out of respect for the old wizard's memory, Le Fay tells Ian where he can find the Ebony Rose. Ian retrieves it, and Le Fay tells McNee that he will next travel beneath the ocean to a place she "once believed was Avalon," guarded by an old serpent, where McNee will presumably seek the Cornerstone of Water. Unlike in the McNee subplot in Mystic Arcana: Magik, the second chapter of McNee's quest does not directly correlate to the objects or events in the main story.

In Mystic Arcana: Scarlet Witch McNee fights Nagala and Llyra to recover the Serpent Crown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic_Arcana

The 10-page stories will focus on what Beard calls "the spine of Mystic Arcana": the quest of Dr. Strange adversary Ian McNee to collect all of The Cornerstones of Creation. David Sexton revealed that "the back up story [featuring Ian McNee] takes place in the present, which is roughly six months [after the death of Captain America]. Roughly a decade has passed since Dr. Strange [last encountered Ian McNee]."[3]

Paniccia promises that "by series end, we'll have two very powerful sorcerers in the Marvel Universe."[2] Additionally, Mystic Arcana's creative director David Sexton explains in a Newsarama interview that the "series is called Mystic Arcana...because the Minor Arcana of the Tarot will serve as a unifying element to the stories." He cites Magik as the representative of the Tarot minor arcana suit of swords, Black Knight for pentacles, Scarlet Witch for cups, and Nico Minoru for wands.[1] Sexton also reveals that the Tarot will serve as a driving force within the comic in addition to the creation of the story. "In 'The Mystic Arcana Book I: Air,' readers are introduced to a very special deck of Tarot cards [called The First Tarot]. The cards are magically connected with the world around them and they magically transform to represent the "real person" (i.e. Marvel character) that most embodies that particular card."[3]

---

Ian McNee subplot

In Mystic Arcana: Magik, McNee's journey begins in the mystical Serpent's Sea as he is drowning and freezing to death; he claims to be ignorant of who sent him there or why they want him dead. He invokes the deity Oshtur and she offers to save him if he helps to restore the magician Heka-Nut, the villain of Ashake and Magick's quest, with mystical power to save the magical realms. Ian agrees and Oshtur charges him to find the Cornerstones of Creation, the "aces" of the First Tarot. He begins by locating the sphinx Ammut, disguised as an ordinary woman, and invokes a contest for possession of the Sword of Bone: Ammut will pose McNee with a riddle, and if McNee guesses correctly, Ammut surrenders the Sword, but if McNee guesses incorrectly, Ammut will eat McNee's mind. McNee guesses correctly and gains the Sword of Bone, the Cornerstone of Air, disguised as a sword-shaped pendant on a necklace. Ammut then informs McNee his next task is to retrieve the Ebony Rose, the Cornerstone of Earth, from Morgan Le Fay.

Mystic Arcana: Black Knight finds McNee fighting his way into Avalon to meet Morgan Le Fay. He finally arrives and respectfully pleads with Le Fay to hand over the Rose for the sake of the magical universe. Le Fay discovers that McNee used a charm to make his voice sounds more like Le Fay's former mentor and lover Merlin in order to sway her more easily. She concludes that not only does McNee sound like Merlin, but also acts "mischievious" like Merlin, and out of respect for the old wizard's memory, Le Fay tells Ian where he can find the Ebony Rose. Ian retrieves it, and Le Fay tells McNee that he will next travel beneath the ocean to a place she "once believed was Avalon," guarded by an old serpent, where McNee will presumably seek the Cornerstone of Water. Unlike in the McNee subplot in Mystic Arcana: Magik, the second chapter of McNee's quest does not directly correlate to the objects or events in the main story.

In Mystic Arcana: Scarlet Witch McNee fights Nagala and Llyra to recover the Serpent Crown.

Jeez, that...that is some weird, wild stuff...

Basically, ANNIHILATION for the magic universe.

To set up a new status quo to make it more interesting and fertile for future stories.

And to put the Dr. Strange deus-ex-machina genie in the bottle.

If Strange hadn't given that successor speech, I'd write it off. He seems almost fatalistic and it'd explain why he went for the Zom thing in WWH.

So the next Sorcerer Supreme will be this McNee guy? It would be kind of cool if the next SS was someone who isn't necessarily good. Like Doom, for example.

Basically, ANNIHILATION for the magic universe.

To set up a new status quo to make it more interesting and fertile for future stories.

And to put the Dr. Strange deus-ex-machina genie in the bottle.

If Strange hadn't given that successor speech, I'd write it off. He seems almost fatalistic and it'd explain why he went for the Zom thing in WWH.

Yeah, and in the Mystic Arcana tarot book, they show that the representative of The Magician could either be "Dr. Strange" or "Ian McNee". I put that up to the title of Sorcerer Supreme basically being up for grabs right now.

MORE:

http://en.marveldatabase.com/Marvel_Tarot_1

Ian McNee looks through the First Tarot Deck, divining who appears on each card, and looking into their origins to see why. He discovered several cards are displaying more than one individual at different times, a sign he feels verifies that the world's magic is broken. In his research, he also traces back the Sorcerer Supreme title to its first earthly bearer, Agamotto.

* Bone Sword - Ace of Swords
* Serpent Crown - Ace of Cups
* Dark Mirror - Ace of Wands
* Ebon Rose - Ace of Pentacles
* Ian McNee - The Magician (1 out of 10 times)
* Doctor Strange (Stephen Strange) - The Magician (9 out of 10 times)
* Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff) - The High Priestess (1/3 of the time)
* Agatha Harkness - The High Priestess (1/3 of the time)
* Storm - The High Priestess (1/3 of the time)
* Morgan le Fay - The Empress
* Naga/Nagala - The Emperor (1/2 of the time)
* Doctor Doom (Victor von Doom) - The Emperor (1/2 of the time)
* Modred the Mystic - The Hierophant
* Cloak and Dagger - The Lovers
* Devil-Slayer - The Chariot
* Golem (Statue) - Strength
* Living Mummy - The Hermit
* Margali Szardos, Jimaine Szardos, Destiny (Irene Adler) - Wheel of Fortune
* Valkyrie (Brunnhilde) - Justice (1/2 of the time)
* Magik (Illyana Rasputin) - Justice (1/2 of the time)
* Brother Voodoo (Jericho Drumm) - The Hanged Man
* Vampire by Night - Death
* Topaz - Temperance
* Satana - The Devil (1/2 of the time)
* Hellstorm - The Devil (1/2 of the time)
* Hellcat - The Tower
* Jennifer Kale - The Star
* Dream Weaver - The Moon (1/2 of the time)
* Sleepwalker - The Moon (1/2 of the time)
* Janus - The Sun
* Cadaver - Judgement
* Man-Thing - The World

---

The First Tarot Deck was used by Doctor Strange (Stephen Strange) in the Secret Defenders series as a way of figuring out what heroes were right for each mission.

As set up in Illuminati #1...there are skrulls versed in magic. They were going to have them research Strange's Cloak and Eye of Agamatto if I remember correctly.

The (Dire) Wraiths are an offshoot of Skrulls and are quite accomplished in magic. It's been noted that the two races hate each, but perhaps there's currently a truce in effect?

Probably reaching on that one...

(Now I have to go bug my friend for his issues of the first three issues of the Annihilation Conquest: Wraith mini and see if the name is just a coincidence.)

EDIT: Whoops, too slow. Evan already brought it up.

So I wikipedia'd "Skrulls" and had no idea they had an alternate branch that were magic users. This is more evidence for a Skrull, or Dire Wraith, impersonating Strange.
The Dire Wraiths are distant offshoots of the Skrulls and are not on any friendly terms with the Skrulls. I find it highly unlikely they'd be associating with each other.

Weren't the Dire Wraiths exterminated by ROM?

The Dire Wraiths are distant offshoots of the Skrulls and are not on any friendly terms with the Skrulls. I find it highly unlikely they'd be associating with each other.

I'm sure the Skrulls could persuade at least a few to join their side.

Yeah, and in the Mystic Arcana tarot book, they show that the representative of The Magician could either be "Dr. Strange" or "Ian McNee". I put that up to the title of Sorcerer Supreme basically being up for grabs right now.
Somehow, "Ian McNee: Sorcerer Supreme" doesn't quite sound as cool as "Dr. Strange: Sorcerer Supreme". :lol:

I'm sure the Skrulls could persuade at least a few to join their side.
The Skrulls would have to want that. The Skrulls find the Wraiths revolting. They don't even want it widely known that they're related to them.

I just can't picture any Skrull approaching them.

And they'd have to share the "Holy Land".. not happening.

And hey, their plan worked, I never knew they were related.. then again I just skimmed ROM.

Ok, I'm leaning more and more towards the following happening at the end of WWH, which dovetails into SI somewhat.

Before WWH ends, Rick Jones will be dead.

This is what will shock Hulk out of what he's doing. Miek will argue that Jones is unimportant and Hulk ends up decimating Miek, which causes the Warbound to turn on him.

There was talk of how before WWH ends, Banner will be scarred for life. And that's the only thing he's got left at this point.

Add in the solicits for THE HULK, where "..a murder mystery as one of the oldest characters in Hulk's universe meets a grisly end.." and given how many characters are left from the old days, it doesn't leave a lot of room for speculation.

Anyways.. it says that it looks as if Hulk is the one responsible.

How could that happen, unless someone was masquerading as the Hulk?

And who could do that? A Skrull.

And why? Revenge for the first Kree/Skrull war.. taking him out and framing the Hulk would keep the heroes/Hulk conflict going as well as imbolizing Hulk now that he's back. It'd also remove Rick from potentially messing with the new invasion.

I don't want Rick Jones to take a hit before the Skrull story gets underway because he should be there. And if he is not there it should be because he is legendary in the Skrull history for his part of the Kree Skrull War and should be on their hit list. To have Hulk be a Skrull or whatever within the WWH storyline would be too much out of left field and make the content too dependent upon outside material. Another character could do something out of the ordinary that works within the story, but if you know what you're looking at takes on a whole new meaning is very possible. But good thinking that Rick Jones should absolutely be a person of interest to the Skrulls.

I want to say I recall having read an interview about the new Captain Marvel mini that said Rick Jones would not be a part of it which was a little unfortunate to me. Hopefully he will endure..even if its as a red Hulk!

Solicits indicate that there will be some SI clues in the Captain Marvel series. Looks like he'll be really involved in the conflict.

This is true. If you are excited about the Invasion story don't even think about not checking out the upcoming Captain Marvel mini. Make sure your shop is taking care of you because I expect this one to be a sleeper.

And here is some colored preview art for Illuminati #5, which according to Jim McCann is apparently coming out in November after all and not being delayed due to Mighty Avengers:

http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=231&itemid=10557

Where did he say that? Information comes at me so fast online...

Strange looks a lot better colored.

That having been said, who could conceivably get away with being a Skrull at this meeting and walk away?

Xavier can shut down someone's mind. Blackbolt could shatter someone.

Reed could get away as could intangible Strange.

Stark isn't a Skrull.

Namor's too stupid and self righteous :D

I think that only the reader knows for sure. Everyone will be suspect to one another, which is enough to get Stark mobilized. But I'm with the line of thought that the reader finds out things that the characters will not know. That way we can squirm while compromised characters continue to interact with our trusting heroes.

Wow, I totally just realized that Strange is in his astral form there. Guess that must rule out the possibility of him being the Skrull, right? Skrulls can't become intangible, as far as I know.

My bet is on Namor now.

Skrull society is more advanced than present Earth. Remember that. They in theory would have ways of doing mass communications that look like telepathy or magic. They should be able to teleport, which can also look like many other things. And they should be able to utilize hologram communications. Who is qualified to tell the difference between an astral projection and a hologram of alien origin? Of someone you trust. Think about that.

Skrulls are actually able to mimic a good number of their foes' powers. I think they showed this in an old xmen comic when the team gets sent to a past Skrull world.

It could be entirely possible that Strange could be a Skrull and the Skrull is attempting to mimic Strange's powers, explaining why Strange's powers have been kinda lackluster as of late.

Was Xavier there for that? The X-men never talked about it because the Skrull world was consumed by Galactus almost immediately after that plot was uncovered by the time traveling X-men. In theory though Xavier would have mentioned that to Reed. Is Reed the authority on Skrulls or would anyone else have more experience than him? That's alive?

Where did he say that? Information comes at me so fast online...

Right here: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showpost.php?p=3746643&postcount=12

Here's a breakdown of my thoughts:

Iron Man - Nope. Marvel won't undo Civil War like that. He's the most unlikely suspect.

Reed Richards - Possible. Would certainly play into the Skrull revenge scheme, but again that might undo a big part of Civil War. I don't see it happening. He was still able to invent some pretty crazy things that I doubt a Skrull could.

Namor - Unlikely, Namor is the most in character of them all.

Professor X - Possible, but seems unlikely once again as he seems to be in his own X-universe and I don't think the Xmen are really being brought into Secret Invasion.

Dr. Strange - One of my top choices. His powers have been strange lately, no pun intended. He seems to be able to do some astonishing things sometimes but other times he can't. Again, he's high on my suspicion list.

Black Bolt - Out of all the Illuminati, he's my number one suspect. His powers can be easily replicated and as the leader of an entire race of super powered beings, what Skrull wouldn't want that kind of power behind them? Not to mention the fact that the Hulk thoroughly thrashed him in World War Hulk is suspect considering how powerful Black Bolt is.

Iron Man - I think anyone with their own title is safe. Anyone who made mistakes like cloning Thor and not giving Cap a bullet proof vest, they need to own those mistakes and grow as characters.

Reed Richards - My thinking on Reed is the same as with Tony. Has his own book, made costly mistakes which need to be his own.

Namor - Namor has been extremely in character of late. But as a Skrull agent, Namor is not that effective. Atlantis got played during Civil War and he's under heavy pressure in his own mini because a group of his people are doing their own thing. He doesn't have his own ongoing so he could be, but again, he's not terribly effective if he is a Skrull agent. People don't half way like the guy let alone trust him.

Professor X - He's kind of in his own title. But he's made mistakes that he needs to own ie: Danger and Vulcan/ Vulcan's team. He'd been without powers for a while and he's scarcely welcome at the mansion. Xavier is not the leading voice in mutant affairs and therefore not an effective Skrull agent.

Dr. Strange - I've said the same thing here so many times that I'm not even going to get into it. I think I've made a very strong case for why this is our man. Our Skrull. Man, I hope I'm not wrong because I will never hear the end of it. :scared:

Black Bolt - Doesn't have his own ongoing, but he's very isolated. He doesn't move about all corners of the Marvel universe like others we know. And recently he's lost ground as leader of the Inhumans and is an enemy of the U.S. Again, not very effective as a Skrull agent is it? And I say that his particular power would be hard to duplicate without a lot of equipment. A surgical implant wouldn't cut it.

So I wikipedia'd "Skrulls" and had no idea they had an alternate branch that were magic users. This is more evidence for a Skrull, or Dire Wraith, impersonating Strange.

Didn't Rom Spaceknight personally purge every last Wraith in the known universe? Doesn't mean that there are not Skrulls that studied the Wraiths ways though...

How about the reveal is that Dr. Strange that shows up for the meeting is the real Strange who spoke to The Watcher and went to meditate instead of participating in Civil War...and the skrull is the Strange who has been on NA since Civil War.

Not bad. I mean in the #5 preview he's the one guy not there in person. How suspect is that. Astral form, pretty convenient. And who is the one giving all the tests so everyone feels comfortable with one another? Just saying.

Don't get me wrong I'm a Dr. Strange fan. I didn't even know I was, but as it turns out I am. Even though all this I look forward to the triumphant return of the real guy in spectacular fashion. Similar to how before Hawkeye died only die hard Avengers fans took note of his actions, but now so many more people pay attention to him, I want that for Strange upon his return.

I don't know if they've said that, but I kind of doubt it. That would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. The first issue takes place right after the Kree/Skrull War, which was over thirty years ago. I think it would just piss too many people off.

I think it was put out there, but it could have been a misdirect like the thing about looking at the eyes that some of us ran away with a while back.

I'm ok with it being far back, gives people a reason to check out back issues once they have a time frame of what stories are potentially involved.

Ok, went digging through old interviews for some quotes for more information..


DR. STRANGE's SKRULL/NON-SKRULL STATUS

Strange being a Skrull seems unlikely, if he has to deal with the ramifications of the events of WWH which will take place in New Avengers.

It's likely the Zom thing, unless Strange surprises everyone and pulls out the Soul Gem and manages to split the Hulk into Good and Bad (Green/Red).

So, Stark and Strange are seemingly off the list.



BENDIS ON TEMPORARY SKRULL SWAPS?
Here, Bendis seems to imply that temporary swaps are indeed in order:

BB: Just look at what’s been going on around the characters – anyone that’s had suspicious deaths and resurrections; anyone who had a change of philosophy…any of those kinds of things are suspect. I’m not saying or guaranteeing that everyone who went through something like that is definitely a Skrull, though…

At least that's how I read it now in retrospect.



SECONDARY CHARACTER SKRULL SWAPS?
Solicit from Iron Man #25:

"Time is running out for humanity. Tony Stark, discredited, humiliated and stripped of his command, struggles to uncover a diabolical plot that could spell the end of mankind. Betrayed by his peers, isolated by his obsessions, Stark finds that his only allies are the demons of his past and, hamstrung by obsolete technology, Iron Man is confronted by his archenemy, The Mandarin."

Could this be Dum Dum betraying him? It'd explain the Wolverine death, and why Fury wouldn't put him in charge if he was suspicious of him.

The strike against this would be Stark putting the Doomsday plans in Dugan's hands during WWH. Of course, that might destabilize the planet, so they might not use it for that reason.

Then again, the 42 Prison is in the Negative Zone, which, if you subscribe to the Stark-knew-all-along plan, seems to be an odd choice of location.



GENETIC KEYS QUOTE

NRAMA: Right – after the Kree-Skrull War, and the Illuminati were captured…

BB: And may have inadvertently given them the genetic keys to do what they are doing, which is different from what they did in the past.

So, which genetic code does this refer to?

Mutants? Prof. X/Namor
Humans? Blackbolt

Reed seems unlikely, as nothing stands to be gained from learning his genetic code.

Blackbolt is also similarly unlikely, as without the Terrigen Mists, it's useless and random. Although, to be fair, there's that whole Beyonder is an Inhuman thing which doesn't make sense to me. Even if they managed to recreate that level of being, it doesn't fit into the quote ".. what they are doing which is different from the past .. " part.

So, that leaves Namor or Professor X. Namor, being the first mutant doesn't really offer much, but as the first, might be the key to solving all mutant genes.

Professor X seems the most likely candidate with the above quote, to further their goals. To block mental scans and/or project a possible illusion/etc to bolster disguises and cover slip ups.



THE SKRULL GOAL/METHODOLOGY
BB: But what’s a less stable Marvel Universe?

NRAMA: One that would make for an easier conquest of earth by Skrulls…

BB: Right, but what is that, one with government sponsored heroes, or one without? One with a strong Avengers, or one without?


I'd say government sponsored heroes, that can be replaced. Strong Avengers so there's an over-reliance on these heroes that can be exploited (WWH giving emergency powers as a prime example) Ultimately setting up heroes for failure when they publically mess up. Sentry going nuts in MA. Etc.

I think the MGH thing does seem like a way to keep things destablized as well. And it'd keep Daredevil busy enough that he can't be called in to find out who's a Skrull and who isn't.

Anyways..

As for Reed being a Skrull.. he gave two reasons for backing the registration act. One, his uncle, the other, the equation.

But which is the real article?

Some would say the uncle, since he hasn't been mentioned prior to this.

I'd say the one working with the Mad Thinker (who tried to kill them before).. working with the Puppet Master he tried to escalate the Civil War. Seems contrary to working with Reed.

So, I'd say that Reed was working with another Skrull to lure Sue into a false sense of security, who was asking too many questions. Immediately after CW, Reed and Sue just up and leave. A good time to replace Sue if any. In fact, any character who up and leaves could be suspect (Jessica for Canada; Ben for France, etc)

Thoughts?

I don't know if they've said that, but I kind of doubt it. That would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. The first issue takes place right after the Kree/Skrull War, which was over thirty years ago. I think it would just piss too many people off.

Just so we have a source quote for reference:


http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=116568&highlight=wwh+bendis

NRAMA: How long does this story go?

BB: This goes on for the rest of the year, and then in early ’08 we get the start of the beginning of the big ba-boom.

NRAMA: Will it mostly play out in the Avengers titles?

BB: New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, and a big whopper in the ending of the Illuminati mini. In fact, the Illuminati miniseries opened with a big hint that this was coming…

NRAMA: Right – after the Kree-Skrull War, and the Illuminati were captured…

BB: And may have inadvertently given them the genetic keys to do what they are doing, which is different from what they did in the past.

NRAMA: And they were captured…

BB: Right – we don’t know how long they had them, and we don’t know if they got them out.

NRAMA: Wait – they all got out.

BB: Did they?

NRAMA: End of the issue, yeah – all the members of the Illuminati were there.

BB: Were they?

NRAMA: Wait – so since shortly after the ending of the Kree-Skrull War…you’re saying…

BB: Yup – that’s what I’m saying.

NRAMA: Bastard. So possibly, for what, thirty+ years, one or some of those characters could have been Skrulls?

BB: [laughs] I’m not saying yes or no to anyone, but the important thing is that it’s crazy, but it’s planned crazy. It’s all been planned out.


So, it's heavily implied. And he's said he's willing to take the lumps for a while.. so it does seem very likely.

Black Bolt and Dr Strange are still my most likely suspects, with Black Bolt still edging out the Doc.

A lot of evidence points at Strange, but the more I think about it, could a Skrull really get away with taking over the place of the Sorcerer Supreme of the universe? Seems like it would be way out of his control in terms of managing everything that Strange does.

Didn't Rom Spaceknight personally purge every last Wraith in the known universe? Doesn't mean that there are not Skrulls that studied the Wraiths ways though...
Rom banished the Wraith homeworld into Limbo taking most of the Wraiths with it. But there are still a tiny number of them left running around. The New Warriors encountered one in their first series.

My reason for BB not being a Skrull:

The New Jersey sized crater on the moon.

My reason for BB not being a Skrull:

The New Jersey sized crater on the moon.

I don't doubt for a second that the Skrulls could replicate his powers to a large degree.

They once has a Skrull pretend to be Thor in those Xmen issues Alan Davis did.

Woo! Time to defibrillate the thread. The lettered preview for Illuminati #5, an important piece in the Secret Invasion event chronicling the Illuminati's reactions to the Skrull Elektra revelation has finally been released:

http://comics.ign.com/articles/832/832211p1.html

Iron Man's armor has confirmed the identity of all of the Illuminati, but given how Wolverine and Spider-Man couldn't detect anything wrong with Elektra, that probably doesn't mean anything.

I know longer think that Spiderwoman is a Skrull. I think Silver Samaurai might be one though.

As I mentioned a few pages back, I think any potential Skrull among the Illuminati would probably try to downplay any fear or suspicion among the group whenever they gather to discuss the Elektra thing. Keeping that in mind and going by the preview,

it seems Namor could perhaps turn out to be the Skrull. His miniseries hasn't ended yet, but for those who aren't following it, it seems Atlantis has been destroyed and a corpse with DNA matching Namor's (with some slight modifications) has been found amongst the wreckage. Of course, that could also turn out to be Namor's son, who has been featured prominently in the series (and I didn't even know he had a son...) so far.

Namor is possible, but Chuck seems suspicious. I've had a bad feeling about him since the last panel of Illuminati #2. And this probably has nothing to do about anything, but he looked damn near evil after getting knocked off Cerebra in Messiah CompleX last week...

If he's not a Skrull, i'm still wondering what the fuck's up. He seems a little less idealist and a little more opportunist.

Thank God this comes out next week, because all the crazy ass theories are killing me.

As I mentioned a few pages back, I think any potential Skrull among the Illuminati would probably try to downplay any fear or suspicion among the group whenever they gather to discuss the Elektra thing. Keeping that in mind and going by the preview,

it seems Namor could perhaps turn out to be the Skrull. His miniseries hasn't ended yet, but for those who aren't following it, it seems Atlantis has been destroyed and a corpse with DNA matching Namor's (with some slight modifications) has been found amongst the wreckage. Of course, that could also turn out to be Namor's son, who has been featured prominently in the series (and I didn't even know he had a son...) so far.

I've been saying that all along! i will either be vindicated Next Week or Destroyed.

There's something really off in that preview. With every character's entrance on the two page spread, Tony's armor rattles off the person's name, their alias, their organizational ties, then confirms their identity. Everyone except for Strange and Xavier. It confirms their identity before everything else.

Am I digging, or do you think there's something to that?

I know longer think that Spiderwoman is a Skrull. I think Silver Samaurai might be one though.

Samurai asked too many questions about Breakout though. And he lost a hand to Wolverine right after. Would that hand not change to its true form?

As I mentioned a few pages back, I think any potential Skrull among the Illuminati would probably try to downplay any fear or suspicion among the group whenever they gather to discuss the Elektra thing. Keeping that in mind and going by the preview,

it seems Namor could perhaps turn out to be the Skrull. His miniseries hasn't ended yet, but for those who aren't following it, it seems Atlantis has been destroyed and a corpse with DNA matching Namor's (with some slight modifications) has been found amongst the wreckage. Of course, that could also turn out to be Namor's son, who has been featured prominently in the series (and I didn't even know he had a son...) so far.

Gotta be Namor's son.

Namor is possible, but Chuck seems suspicious. I've had a bad feeling about him since the last panel of Illuminati #2. And this probably has nothing to do about anything, but he looked damn near evil after getting knocked off Cerebra in Messiah CompleX last week...

If he's not a Skrull, i'm still wondering what the fuck's up. He seems a little less idealist and a little more opportunist.

Xavier a Skrull in the midst of the Messiah Complex? I don't know about that. I think that Silvestri's art added something sinister where there may not have been. But I don't know for sure because I think something was up with Xavier's eyes too. Still, I would think that would be too much going on from outside X-men comics. My money is on Strange and only the reader knowing for sure so he can go back to New Avengers and if you didn't read Illuminati in issue form you're not penalized too badly.

There's something really off in that preview. With every character's entrance on the two page spread, Tony's armor rattles off the person's name, their alias, their organizational ties, then confirms their identity. Everyone except for Strange and Xavier. It confirms their identity before everything else.

Am I digging, or do you think there's something to that?

Xavier is confirmed. Why do people think he is not? Identity, occupation, affiliation are confirmed. Strange's astral energies are confirmed to match previous readings, but he is NOT physically there so far. And that's super-suspicious although he has a "legit" reason for it.

On the Illuminati #5 preview:

Tony's armor confirming peoples' identities doesn't really mean anything as Wolverine's senses couldn't pick it up and neither could Dr. Strange's magic for the most part.

This is true, too.

I think storywise, the most dramatic reveals would be if BB or Strange were outed.

Strange, because no one can do anything, and it shows just how dangerous it is, since he's in control of an Avenger team (and Tony trying to convince everyone to stop them wouldn't work, since his motives would be suspect based on post-CW pursuit of the New Avengers) And the whole "they can use magic?! What now? Reed and Tony hate magic"

Blackbolt, just cause it'd be fun to have the silent guy speak up and shock everyone.

Namor? Not so much.

Xavier? Unless he manages to mind wipe everyone, which is possible. That way only the reader is aware of the reveal. The overwhelming sense of dread that the characters found out, but had that knowledge taken from them. Every exchange from this point on would be tense for the reader since they know, but the characters don't. The only problem is, it doesn't blow open the storyline if no one knows.

Unless... Strange manages to avoid it and sees everyone else go down. He goes back to the New Avengers and tells them. No one can trust the other Illuminati that were taken out (who knows if they got replaced?) and no one would trust Strange because of the Illuminati thing.

Hrm.. for the first time I'm starting to suspect Xavier now. If they cracked the mutant gene, it'd possibly open the door to "fixing" the 198 thing if Marvel needed to.

So, I'm thinking the astral form thing is a herring now to focus us on Strange. And to provide a way for the secret to get out. Imagine if Strange tried to contact Reed after "Xavier" wiped his mind. But "Xavier" got to Reed first to convince him that Strange is a Skrull. Does that make sense?

And Xavier's casual dismissal of "long story" works on one level, but does seem a convienient way to toss suspicion if he was a Skrull.

And there's the whole House of M thing, which would salvage that in some readers eyes as well.

The only drawback is his proximity to Emma and the sort over the years.

Argh.. so many ways this can go.

Hrm.. for the first time I'm starting to suspect Xavier now.

Xavier's already had too many doppelganger/sleeper agent stories.

Mimic replaced him for the first Xavier death story way, way back. He was "replaced" by the Brood Queen in the mansion. He was taken over by the Shadow King in the X-Men/Micronauts mini. The Shadow King got him again before the X-team split into two groups. And if he's a telepathic Skrull, what would that have done to the end of the recent Shi'ar arc when Xavier was chucked into the Big Scary Universe Crystal?

And while I don't like him walking again, I'd hate it even more if this was some screw-up caused by the Skrull swap. It's an awfully big tell.

Didn't Blackbolt get a ridiculous beatdown from the Hulk? My money is on Blackbolt. I think it makes sense. The Inhumans declared war on Earth, right? I dunno. Seems like something a Skrull would do.

Didn't Blackbolt get a ridiculous beatdown from the Hulk? My money is on Blackbolt. I think it makes sense. The Inhumans declared war on Earth, right? I dunno. Seems like something a Skrull would do.

Yeah, but he also took out a portion of the moon the size of New Jersey.

If Skrulls can do that, why not infiltrate as Stark or Reed and wipe out half of the heroes (ala Infinity War)?

Yea, I didn't read Silent War, but it seemed like something that would tie in. Strange does make sense too, although I'm not sure as to how he mimics magic...

Strange does make sense too, although I'm not sure as to how he mimics magic...
By getting other magic. Earth is not the only place where there's magic.

By getting other magic. Earth is not the only place where there's magic.

Exactly...they established in Illuminati #1 that the Skrulls had a faction that studied mysticism as well.

I'm curious as to whether Ethan Edwards (Virtue) will be involved. He is a super skrull sent to Earth to conquer it. I think that he is sent soon after the Skrull throne world is devoured by Galactus.

He has no memory of his mission nor previous memory of being a Skrull and Ben destroys the Skrull device before it activates what he is programed to do. The guy is still residing on Earth performing missionary work and basically in denial of what he is. It is hard to imagine that he is will not show up in the Invasion storyline.

Another question..

If Professor X is in Black Bolt's head speaking for him, doesn't that clear BB of being a Skrull?

Of course, you could probably write that off by saying Xavier doesn't do deep scans out of courtesy, but something like that would be easy to pick up I'd think.

Then again, if that What If Hulk is to be believed, a Black Bolt whisper would have destroyed the Hulk instantly. And there's a reason it was shown off panel.

They could have replicated enough of his power to do damage, I suppose. Maybe the weakness is due to the lack of the Terrigen Mist?

Still, I'd hate to see that part of WWH trashed.

Storywise, it'd still be a cool moment for Black Bolt to speak and reveal himself.

I dunno.

That's what's great about this story, it can stand up to all these theories :D

Then again, if that What If Hulk is to be believed, a Black Bolt whisper would have destroyed the Hulk instantly. And there's a reason it was shown off panel.

They could have replicated enough of his power to do damage, I suppose. Maybe the weakness is due to the lack of the Terrigen Mist?

Still, I'd hate to see that part of WWH trashed.

Storywise, it'd still be a cool moment for Black Bolt to speak and reveal himself.

I dunno.

That's what's great about this story, it can stand up to all these theories :D

Namor was the only one not in World War Hulk ;)

During the Illuminati series he is always around when shit hits the fan. He thought of the giant beast with the Mind Infinity gem. He took pleasure in beating up a Kree Agent. And now in this one he seems to saying how does one skrull make an invasion. Playing Misdirection. He planted Sleeper cells in the United States during Civil War. And In my opinion would be one of the first illuminati TO be replaced for the simple fact that he is way more powerful in a way to cause more civil unrest. He's the monarch of an underwater civilization that might have an honor and war system similar to the Skrulls. On top of that, he has no one in his kingdom that can deny him or challenge him upon pain of death.

He is most likely a Skrull.

Namor was the only one not in World War Hulk ;)

During the Illuminati series he is always around when shit hits the fan. He thought of the giant beast with the Mind Infinity gem. He took pleasure in beating up a Kree Agent. And now in this one he seems to saying how does one skrull make an invasion. Playing Misdirection. He planted Sleeper cells in the United States during Civil War. And In my opinion would be one of the first illuminati TO be replaced for the simple fact that he is way more powerful in a way to cause more civil unrest. He's the monarch of an underwater civilization that might have an honor and war system similar to the Skrulls. On top of that, he has no one in his kingdom that can deny him or challenge him upon pain of death.

He is most likely a Skrull.
Namor is definitely the easiest one to mimic. He has the haughty, distant personality which would work fine for the Skrull's needs. Namor's main powers are his flight, strength and durability all of which the Skrulls can easily genetically manipulate. And he rules a rich, undersea kingdom which lies outside the influence of most nations, and outside the watchful eyes of SHIELD.

He is the most likely suspect. Which probably means it ain't him. :lol:

Namor is definitely the easiest one to mimic. He has the haughty, distant personality which would work fine for the Skrull's needs. Namor's main powers are his flight, strength and durability all of which the Skrulls can easily genetically manipulate. And he rules a rich, undersea kingdom which lies outside the influence of most nations, and outside the watchful eyes of SHIELD.

He is the most likely suspect. Which probably means it ain't him. :lol:

But No!...Hes...he's gotta be the Skrull :(

Namor is definitely the easiest one to mimic. He has the haughty, distant personality which would work fine for the Skrull's needs. Namor's main powers are his flight, strength and durability all of which the Skrulls can easily genetically manipulate. And he rules a rich, undersea kingdom which lies outside the influence of most nations, and outside the watchful eyes of SHIELD.

He is the most likely suspect. Which probably means it ain't him. :lol:

Duplicating the most easy party is not scary. Duplicating someone that everyone trusts, duplicating powers that must surely be impossible to duplicate, that is the scary part.

Duplicating the most easy party is not scary. Duplicating someone that everyone trusts, duplicating powers that must surely be impossible to duplicate, that is the scary part.

But again, I see no evidence of everyone trusting Strange.

If anything, he's that creepy guy that dabbles in magic that no one knows about. And he tried to take over the world a while back.

Past that, nothing.

But again, I see no evidence of everyone trusting Strange.

If anything, he's that creepy guy that dabbles in magic that no one knows about. And he tried to take over the world a while back.

Past that, nothing.

The New Avengers seem to trust Strange almost blindly. Every time they have issues of trust going on or whatever, they turn to one of Strange's spells to dissipate their doubts, and none of them stop to wonder if maybe Strange himself isn't to be trusted.

But again, I see no evidence of everyone trusting Strange.

If anything, he's that creepy guy that dabbles in magic that no one knows about. And he tried to take over the world a while back.

Past that, nothing.

Avengers Disassembled

Ms. Marvel: Please, Doctor Strange, I don't understand. What is happening to us?



That one statement epitomizes what I'm saying. They were practically begging Strange to show them what to do. And he is incidentally more than happy to take them all straight to Wanda. That's just one example. Marvel characters don't challenge Dr. Strange. If he's there then they usually take a back seat to his direction. He says what is and is not possible and people go with that. That's a dangerous thing.

The New Avengers seem to trust Strange almost blindly. Every time they have issues of trust going on or whatever, they turn to one of Strange's spells to dissipate their doubts, and none of them stop to wonder if maybe Strange himself isn't to be trusted.

You're right. Its a very subtle thing to where even the reader thinks the same way the characters do in regards to Strange.

Its nothing overt, but its there regardless of Strange being compromised or not. And its not a new thing in comics.

That one statement epitomizes what I'm saying. They were practically begging Strange to show them what to do. And he is incidentally more than happy to take them all straight to Wanda. That's just one example. Marvel characters don't challenge Dr. Strange. If he's there then they usually take a back seat to his direction. He says what is and is not possible and people go with that. That's a dangerous thing.
Well Strange is the authority on magic. There isn't anyone else to go to that's better than him. So everybody defers to him.

They do the same thing with Reed Richards too. I've noticed that even if Hank Pym or Iron Man are around, the writers tends to have everyone defer to Richards for the "technobabble" fix.

Well Strange is the authority on magic. There isn't anyone else to go to that's better than him. So everybody defers to him.

They do the same thing with Reed Richards too. I've noticed that even if Hank Pym or Iron Man are around, the writers tends to have everyone defer to Richards for the "technobabble" fix.

True, but Reed and Pym..nobody..has been getting the Marvel universe screen time (regardless of if he's helping or just consulting briefly) that Strange has.

True, but Reed and Pym..nobody..has been getting the Marvel universe screen time (regardless of if he's helping or just consulting briefly) that Strange has.
Strange is kinda like the Sentry right now. He's a big, important player, but he doesn't have his own series. So he's reliant on having to be used by writers in assorted series.

The New Avengers seem to trust Strange almost blindly. Every time they have issues of trust going on or whatever, they turn to one of Strange's spells to dissipate their doubts, and none of them stop to wonder if maybe Strange himself isn't to be trusted.

So, in order to take over the world, the Skrulls feel the best way to do so is to convince a bunch of street level fighters?

That's the point.

As for Ms. Marvel, again, in the middle of a fight, they're grasping at any straws to find out what happened. If Professor X showed up, they'd ask him. If Sentry showed up someone'd ask him.

As far as showing up everywhere.. Absorbing Man and Ultron are showing up everywhere lately. Sentry. Venom. Green Goblin. Any other number of characters can be substituted really. To say that's clear evidence of them being Skrulls isn't really reasoning it out IMO.

So in Illuminati #1 when they rescue Namor....Where did the Water come from? Maybe I'm reaching to support my theory but they seem to rescue him from a tank of water almost. Or maybe it's just all the sweat coming off of him from being in that heat Tank.


Still interesting.

So, in order to take over the world, the Skrulls feel the best way to do so is to convince a bunch of street level fighters?

Well, do remember that the New Avengers are some of like, what, twenty people who are aware that there's something fishy going on with SHIELD, HYDRA, the government, etc. etc. etc. What I've always figured is that the Skrulls would want to keep an eye on them because they're some of the few who are aware that there's a conspiracy going on, and some of the even fewer who know that it's something to do with the Skrulls.

Also the Skrulls still have Iron Man's Armor. Man....Bendis and Reed did a great job of misdirection and laying the seeds of doubt in all of them.

You know, I was just thinking, and this likely won't turn out to mean anything or whatever, but you know the Skrull Emperor we saw in Illuminati #1? Who was that guy? I mean, this was shortly after the Kree/Skrull War, so I'm guessing that would mean it's Emperor Dorrek, yeah? Dorrek got killed by his wife a few years, if I recall correctly. But it seems he's on the cover to Illuminati #5 (although, not to be racist, but I can't really tell those Skrulls apart), if he shows up in that issue, what would that mean? Eeep! Emperor Dorrek must be a Skrull! :)

(although, not to be racist, but I can't really tell those Skrulls apart)

hahaha

So, in order to take over the world, the Skrulls feel the best way to do so is to convince a bunch of street level fighters?

That's the point.
In all these years, have any superheroes (Avengers, Defenders, X-Men, Fantastic Four) ever questioned Strange's authority on magic before? Not really.

Heck, SHIELD even asked Strange to help them out with the Sentry situation.

The Marvel Universe trusts Dr. Strange.

So what do you think everybody; will Iron Man redeem himself in all this? I'm a huge Iron Man fan, especially when Bendis writes him and I'd really like him to be the hero in all of this. Well, him and the Sentry, but I seem to be the minority in this respect.

So what do you think everybody; will Iron Man redeem himself in all this? I'm a huge Iron Man fan, especially when Bendis writes him and I'd really like him to be the hero in all of this. Well, him and the Sentry, but I seem to be the minority in this respect.

Hear me now and believe me later. As far as the Secret Invasion goes, Iron Man is the only one that can help your Marvel universe. Its his mistake to clean up and he is going to be the go-to guy next year.

Yeah, $10 says him being aware of the Skrull plot (or at least having a vague idea of it) is part of the reason why he pushed for the Registration Act and the Initiative. He knew they needed an army to combat a threat of this magnitude, so he created one.

And that'll all be revealed at some point during SI, and everyone will go, "Oooohhhhhhh...wow, Tony..."

Yeah, $10 says him being aware of the Skrull plot (or at least having a vague idea of it) is part of the reason why he pushed for the Registration Act and the Initiative. He knew they needed an army to combat a threat of this magnitude, so he created one.

And that'll all be revealed at some point during SI, and everyone will go, "Oooohhhhhhh...wow, Tony..."

Reed was the guy who supported Tony because his calculations of the future showed this small evil would supplant a larger one.

Yeah, $10 says him being aware of the Skrull plot (or at least having a vague idea of it) is part of the reason why he pushed for the Registration Act and the Initiative. He knew they needed an army to combat a threat of this magnitude, so he created one.

And that'll all be revealed at some point during SI, and everyone will go, "Oooohhhhhhh...wow, Tony..."

I hope you guys are right. I'm so sick of seeing him get yelled at in every book that comes out these days. Enough already!! (except for Thor, he kind of deserved that one).

I think it will be totally cool if he put this stuff in motion to combat the skrull threat.

Reed was the guy who supported Tony because his calculations of the future showed this small evil would supplant a larger one.

Yeah, there is that, too.

That was such a better explanation for Reed supporting the Registration Act than the one JMS put forward in Amazing Spider-Man. I mean, jeez.

Yeah, $10 says him being aware of the Skrull plot (or at least having a vague idea of it) is part of the reason why he pushed for the Registration Act and the Initiative. He knew they needed an army to combat a threat of this magnitude, so he created one.

And that'll all be revealed at some point during SI, and everyone will go, "Oooohhhhhhh...wow, Tony..."

I dunno. I was leaning this way up until the most recent issue of IM where he basically agreed to wear an ankle bracelet that shuts down Extremis. He is now out of the game, as it were, at least in terms of superheroics. A guy that's known all along what was going on wouldn't seem to agree to this. Unless, of course, what's going on in IM right now isn't related to the Skrull story.

I hope you guys are right. I'm so sick of seeing him get yelled at in every book that comes out these days. Enough already!! (except for Thor, he kind of deserved that one).

I think it will be totally cool if he put this stuff in motion to combat the skrull threat.

I believe that's what will happen. He'll come out the hero in Secret Invasion and he'll make amends with everyone who's pissed at him. Including Spider-Man. It'd be great if the two of them went back to being pals.

I seem to recall some sort of press release for...Avengers: The Initative, I believe it was, that hinted Tony was indeed aware of something fishy going on.

Let me see if I can find it:

Secret Invasion: Infiltration Begins!



It’s the event over five years in the making and now that the Skrulls’ plans have come to light, it’s time for Secret Invasion: Infiltration to be exposed! All Marvel titles bearing the Secret Invasion: Infiltration banner provide crucial tie-ins to the most anticipated event of 2008—Secret Invasion. If you want to know everything about the machinations of the shape shifting Skrulls, the secret agents hiding in the Marvel Universe and just how the heroes prepare for the most explosive battle of 2008, then you can’t miss an issue of the Infiltration!



In New Avengers: Illuminati #5, by the red-hot creative team of writers Brian Bendis, Brian Reed and artist Jimmy Cheung, the mysterious Illuminati come together to discuss the shocking discovery in New Avengers #31—the Skrull body of Elektra! As this evidence of invasion is presented to the group, they must decide what this means to the future of Earth and who they can trust! By the end of the issue, the Illuminati will never be the same again as a jaw dropping revelation with the team—and readers—stunned. War is declared…but by who?



Then, in Avengers: The Initiative Annual #1, from acclaimed author Dan Slott and a line-up of fan-favorite artists including Salvador Larroca, Clayton Henry, Patrick Scherberger and cover artist Jimmy Cheung, secrets of the Initiative are revealed! As the hidden origins of MVP, Armory, Hardball and more are brought to light, readers will gain insight into the inner workings of Tony Stark’s bold new vision…and into the Skrull invasion? You’ll never guess how it all comes together and just who is responsible for this deception!



This November, the next stage of the Skrull offensive is uncovered in Secret Invasion: Infiltration and there’s no going back for the Marvel Universe! Lives will be shattered as every hero and villain is forced to ask…Who Do You Trust?



Don’t miss the opening salvos in New Avengers: Illuminati #5 and Avengers: The Initiative Annual #1!



AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE ANNUAL #1 (SEP072183)

Written by DAN SLOTT

Penciled by SALVADOR LARROCA, TOM FEISTER, STEVE UY, PATRICK SCHERBERGER AND CLAYTON HENRY

Cover by JIM CHEUNG

Rated T+ …$3.99

FOC—10/18/07, On-Sale-11/7/07



NEW AVENGERS: ILLUMINATI #5 (of 5) (SEP072217)

Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS & BRIAN REED

Pencils & Cover by JIM CHEUNG

Rated T+ …$2.99

FOC—10/18/07, On-Sale-11/7/07



To find a comic shop near you, call 1-888-comicbook

Yeah, $10 says him being aware of the Skrull plot (or at least having a vague idea of it) is part of the reason why he pushed for the Registration Act and the Initiative. He knew they needed an army to combat a threat of this magnitude, so he created one.

And that'll all be revealed at some point during SI, and everyone will go, "Oooohhhhhhh...wow, Tony..."

I don't really see that because his army is going to have been infiltrated also. I think he's going to do the best he can once the nature of the threat is revealed. And it'll probably come at great expense to himself so he'll be down and out in the Marvel Universe after being the face of the hero registration that the people wanted..at the time.

I dunno. I was leaning this way up until the most recent issue of IM where he basically agreed to wear an ankle bracelet that shuts down Extremis. He is now out of the game, as it were, at least in terms of superheroics. A guy that's known all along what was going on wouldn't seem to agree to this. Unless, of course, what's going on in IM right now isn't related to the Skrull story.

As a big fan of the Knaufs' run on Iron Man, I'll tell you that it most likely isn't. The Knaufs usually seem to shy away a bit from tying into other goings on in the Marvel Universe, unless it's absolutely necessary. See, for example, Civil War. They only wrote two CW tie-in issues, and those weren't as connected to the larger goings on of CW (in comparison to, say, the Amazing Spider-Man tie-in arc) despite the fact that Iron Man was one of the two most important people in CW, and they mostly served to further some of the plot lines they themselves were working with. And the WWH tie-in wasn't even written by them. I think they prefer to stay in their own little corner working their magic unless they absolutely HAVE to play ball.

So what do you think everybody; will Iron Man redeem himself in all this? I'm a huge Iron Man fan, especially when Bendis writes him and I'd really like him to be the hero in all of this. Well, him and the Sentry, but I seem to be the minority in this respect.

I hope Tony is able to redeem himself somehow. I am not sure how he will do it though.

I am not sure he will ever be able to redeem himself with Steve when he comes back though.

I don't really see that because his army is going to have been infiltrated also. I think he's going to do the best he can once the nature of the threat is revealed. And it'll probably come at great expense to himself so he'll be down and out in the Marvel Universe after being the face of the hero registration that the people wanted..at the time.

While it is true that his army will be (or will have been) infiltrated (mostly because it's inevitable, seeing as the Skrulls are playing hardball in Secret Invasion and somehow cloaking every aspect of themselves including their scents or anything that might betray their real identities) a system like the Initiative, where Tony has every hero on call 24/7 and is aware of every aspect of their superhero dealings certainly reduces chances that Skrulls might be snooping around within the superhero community undetected. Put another way, while it is true that there are probably Skrulls within the superhero community, they're much more likely to be found by Tony (or SHIELD) if they're part of a strict, well defined structure such as the Initiative, instead of having all the superheroes running around pretty much wildly and disorganized as they did before the Registration Act came into place.

The thing is if Stark knew about the invasion in advance, then why didn't he just tell Captain America that before the whole Civil War shitstorm started?

Captain America: The greatest fucking leader of superheroes, ever. If Stark had gotten Cap on board about what's coming, Cap could've gotten most of the superhero ranks on board.

And what about Nick Fury? If Stark knows, you damn well bet Fury knows. And he would have told Cap about it.

I don't think Stark or Fury knew.

The thing is if Stark knew about the invasion in advance, then why didn't he just tell Captain America that before the whole Civil War shitstorm started?

Captain America: The greatest fucking leader of superheroes, ever. If Stark had gotten Cap on board about what's coming, Cap could've gotten most of the superhero ranks on board.

And what about Nick Fury? If Stark knows, you damn well bet Fury knows. And he would have told Cap about it.

I don't think Stark or Fury knew.

I don't think Tony actually knew about the Skrull invasion. I do think, however, that he had an idea of it. Out of all the Avengers prior to the Civil War, he was the one who interacted with SHIELD the most. And well, he's a futurist and is wired to all sorts of databases and digital technology and whatnot. I think he might have sniffed something out at some point.

I imagine he didn't outright say anything to anyone because of issues of trust. Don't know who he can trust, so if he says something to the wrong person, he could be tipping off whoever it is that's messing with SHIELD and the heroes.

And I get the feeling Fury knew. Probably more than Tony (he kind of hinted at something in the Spider-Woman arc of New Avengers, and he's been telling Bucky about rotten SHIELD).

While it is true that his army will be (or will have been) infiltrated (mostly because it's inevitable, seeing as the Skrulls are playing hardball in Secret Invasion and somehow cloaking every aspect of themselves including their scents or anything that might betray their real identities) a system like the Initiative, where Tony has every hero on call 24/7 and is aware of every aspect of their superhero dealings certainly reduces chances that Skrulls might be snooping around within the superhero community undetected. Put another way, while it is true that there are probably Skrulls within the superhero community, they're much more likely to be found by Tony (or SHIELD) if they're part of a strict, well defined structure such as the Initiative, instead of having all the superheroes running around pretty much wildly and disorganized as they did before the Registration Act came into place.

It also gives them a big help if there is a high placed Skrull. With everything centralized a Skrull in the right place has everything at his or her fingertips. There are benefits to decentralization. I think NA might be in the best positions right now.

I don't think Tony actually knew about the Skrull invasion. I do think, however, that he had an idea of it. Out of all the Avengers prior to the Civil War, he was the one who interacted with SHIELD the most. And well, he's a futurist and is wired to all sorts of databases and digital technology and whatnot. I think he might have sniffed something out at some point.

I imagine he didn't outright say anything to anyone because of issues of trust. Don't know who he can trust, so if he says something to the wrong person, he could be tipping off whoever it is that's messing with SHIELD and the heroes.

And I get the feeling Fury knew. Probably more than Tony (he kind of hinted at something in the Spider-Woman arc of New Avengers, and he's been telling Bucky about rotten SHIELD).

I am pretty sure that Nick will have been one of the big time heroes of SI going all the way back to SW.

While it is true that his army will be (or will have been) infiltrated (mostly because it's inevitable, seeing as the Skrulls are playing hardball in Secret Invasion and somehow cloaking every aspect of themselves including their scents or anything that might betray their real identities) a system like the Initiative, where Tony has every hero on call 24/7 and is aware of every aspect of their superhero dealings certainly reduces chances that Skrulls might be snooping around within the superhero community undetected. Put another way, while it is true that there are probably Skrulls within the superhero community, they're much more likely to be found by Tony (or SHIELD) if they're part of a strict, well defined structure such as the Initiative, instead of having all the superheroes running around pretty much wildly and disorganized as they did before the Registration Act came into place.

I think that the Initiative may actually make things easier for Skrull infiltration. Especially if they're deep in SHIELD. They know where everyone is and where they're going to be. And until there is a Skrull detector process (if there ever is one), if a person checks out then they check out and there's no more that can be done. But like I said before strange things happen in the Marvel universe so some characters will be real, but their unverifiable stories just won't check out.

I think that the Initiative may actually make things easier for Skrull infiltration. Especially if they're deep in SHIELD. They know where everyone is and where they're going to be. And until there is a Skrull detector process (if there ever is one), if a person checks out then they check out and there's no more that can be done. But like I said before strange things happen in the Marvel universe so some characters will be real, but their unverifiable stories just won't check out.

Registration will end up shooting the heroes in the foot.

I think that the Initiative may actually make things easier for Skrull infiltration. Especially if they're deep in SHIELD. They know where everyone is and where they're going to be. And until there is a Skrull detector process (if there ever is one), if a person checks out then they check out and there's no more that can be done. But like I said before strange things happen in the Marvel universe so some characters will be real, but their unverifiable stories just won't check out.

At the same time, however, if Tony is aware that there is something rotten in SHIELD (not even Skrulls or anything; just that there's something bad going on that seeks to harm or undermine the heroes) it would make sense that he would push to become a big part of the movement that's looking to make the heroes register, so that he can fight from within. Essentially similar to what's going on with Tony and the New Avengers right now. Tony is seeking to arrest the New Avengers, but he's doing it to save them other forces within SHIELD that are, presumably, looking to do something worse with them (kill/replace them?).

This kinda brings something else to my mind. I mean, aside from Tony, there are around...what? Like twenty people who are aware that there's something going on with SHIELD (and HYDRA, etc.)? And some of those people are in the New Avengers right now. Since they share his knowledge (and knowledge is power and blah blah blah), maybe Tony is looking to bring the New Avengers in to turn them into his "power circle" of sorts. His "main" team, apart from the Mighty Avengers.